# Jesus Took My Friend Away **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629 "2005-11-24T23:30:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/41 "2005-11-25T05:55:40Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Jesus didn’t take your friend away, you chose a path that pushed your friend away. Sorry, I can’t agree with this. The choices presented **deevee** were to either reply with an “Amen” or delete the message. Since when does friendship only allow a single scripted answser? The original message, glurgey dreck that it was, that his friend chose to send was framed as a binary choice: either agree wholeheartedly or don’t reply at all. That wasn’t just a stupid, artifical nonchoice. It was an anti-communication, and hardly the act of a friend. Friends don’t require rigid lockstep agreement on every single matter of individual belief. Yeah, it probably just started as a thoughtless pass-along of some glurge. The trouble is, the ‘friend’ stood by the ridiculous glurge. I rejected my Christian indoctrination years ago for lots of reasons, not the least of which were that I flatout couldn’t believe much of it and–more pertinently–that the behavior of the supposed adherents of the religion were at such glaring, flagrant odds with its basic tenets. IIRC Jesus forgave imperfection but also required some highly inconvenient things like humility and tending to the hard endless work on one’s own faults before the infinitely more attractive option of scouring other people’s souls. IMO religion, like politics, can be fertile ground for the nastiest aspects of mob thinking, and this is just another rancid example of both. **deevee’s** friend drew a line in the sand: either with us or agin’ us. No room for honest, principled talk, just a rigid yea or nea for every mindboggling bit of a far-fetched screed. That wasn’t friendship, and it certainly wasn’t what Jesus taught either. IIRC Jesus also had a bit of a temper about those who distorted His teachings for their own ends. **deevee’s** honest, considered response hews much closer to the path He taught. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/42 "2005-11-25T06:00:49Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > It certainly can be being a dick, as demonstrated by the OP. If one is so tolerant, why not continue to accept a life-long friend, religious beliefs notwithstanding? Because, moron, the religious beliefs aren’t the point. The emailing friend wasn’t rejected for his _beliefs_ but because he verbally attacked the OP (and most of Canada) for not _sharing_ those beliefs. Tolerance means _rejecting bigotry_, moron. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/43 "2005-11-25T06:03:42Z")
> [@lel](#): > > No, because responding with way over-the-top vitriol is acting in a jerkish manner. The glurge email was over-the-top and vitriolic. The OP was just responding in kind. The OP’s friend had basically sent him hate mail. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/44 "2005-11-25T06:04:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Tolerance means _rejecting bigotry_ Unless the bigotry is against religious beliefs, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/45 "2005-11-25T06:08:32Z")
\*\*TVeblen \*\*, fair enough. But in the end, he still chose his answer, knowing full well how his friend would react. He may have been right in his action, but he chose it. It was all him here, Jesus was just dragged in unwillingly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/46 "2005-11-25T06:09:16Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Unless the bigotry is against religious beliefs, right? :dubious: No bigotry was expressed against religious beliefs, you obtuse fuck. The OP expressed anger about being attacked by hate speech. Retard. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/47 "2005-11-25T06:10:28Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > \*\*TVeblen \*\*, fair enough. But in the end, he still chose his answer, knowing full well how his friend would react. > > He may have been right in his action, but he chose it. It was all him here, Jesus was just dragged in unwillingly. 🙂 His friend was the one who made the choice to end the friendship by sending an assaultive email with a hostile ultimatum. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/48 "2005-11-25T06:13:09Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > No bigotry was expressed against religious beliefs, you obtuse fuck. The OP expressed anger about being attacked by hate speech. Retard. Hate speech? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/49 "2005-11-25T06:15:35Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > His friend was the one who made the choice to end the friendship by sending an assaultive email with a hostile ultimatum. Are you nuts? How can an email from a friend be “assaultive”? Sticks and stones, sticks and stones. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/50 "2005-11-25T06:28:11Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > The national motto? First I’d heard of one although “stand on guard for thee” is a lyric from the national anthem. Our national motto is “A Mari Usque Ad Mare”: from sea to sea, as used on the Arms of Her Majesty in Right of Canada. Another possibility would be “Desiderantes meliorem patriam” - they desire a better country - the motto of the Order of Canada, also featured on the Arms. Wouldn’t it occur to people that the national motto would probably be a) bilingual (no direct translation occurs in the French anthem) or b) in a third language (as the Latin motto)? Translation: he (or the originator of the glurge in question) doesn’t know what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/51 "2005-11-25T06:28:51Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Hate speech? Where? Throughout the entire letter. The whole thing is an attack on non-Christians and immigrants. It’s not some kind of harmless witnessing, it’s an expression of hate for anyone who thinks differently or has the temerity not to say “Merry Christmas.” > [@](#): > > Are you nuts? How can an email from a friend be “assaultive”? By insulting him, accusing him of being unpatriotic and demanding that he agree with the repugnant sentiments anyone who isn’t a Christian fundy. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/52 "2005-11-25T06:38:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > By insulting him, accusing him of being unpatriotic and demanding that he agree with the repugnant sentiments anyone who isn’t a Christian fundy. Although you are no longer speaking in coherent sentences, how is any of that “assault”? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/53 "2005-11-25T06:42:30Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Although you are no longer speaking in coherent sentences, how is any of that “assault”? :rolleyes: The surest sign that you have lost an argument is when you start debating semantics. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/54 "2005-11-25T06:44:11Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > \*\*TVeblen \*\*, fair enough. But in the end, he still chose his answer, knowing full well how his friend would react. > > He may have been right in his action, but he chose it. It was all him here, Jesus was just dragged in unwillingly. 🙂 **deevee** couldn’t have _known_ how his friend would react. Dread a probable reaction? Yeah, but he still paid his friend the fine compliment of respect: honesty, hope and willingness to actually talk. Grabbing responsiblity for how someone else acts is hubris. Tempting, and sometimes caring about people is a slippery slope, but assuming full power for their responses is patronizing. It goes back to that minding the motes in one’s own eye thing. Responsiblity is usually a real bitch, especially when mopping up for other people presents such an attractive diversion. Tsk, tsk, just lookee over there! Can’t have _that_, now can we? I’ll get right back to wrestling with my own piddling flaws when their mess is cleaned up…(\<–familiar voice of rationalization there) **deevee’s** friend isn’t a mindless puppet. Friends–and sometimes even esteemed enemies–can bone-deep disagree about all kinds of things. I grant the impulse behind your point, **DioBella** , but draw the line of responsibility differently. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/55 "2005-11-25T06:46:55Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Although you are no longer speaking in coherent sentences, how is any of that “assault”? :rolleyes: What do you think the word means? Do you think it’s limited to physical battery? Have you never heard of a verbal assault? ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/56 "2005-11-25T06:49:03Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What do you think the word means? Do you think it’s limited to physical battery? Have you never heard of a verbal assault? What does this mean? If I say that Diogenes the Cynic is a poopy-head, have I verbally assaulted you? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/57 "2005-11-25T06:56:34Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > What does this mean? If I say that Diogenes the Cynic is a poopy-head, have I verbally assaulted you? Yes, just not very severely. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/58 "2005-11-25T06:58:42Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes, just not very severely. Sorry, but if you think that’s verbal assault, maybe you’re just not cut out for life in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/59 "2005-11-25T07:52:22Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > The surest sign that you have lost an argument is when you start debating semantics. No, the surest sign that you have lost an argument is when you are **Updike**. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629/60 "2005-11-25T09:23:28Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Right, because not being tolerant of intolerance is being a dick. As I read the OP, his problem is not merely with the email, but with his friend having religion generally. If it makes you feel better, though, pull out the word “intolerant” and just leave it as “OP is a dick.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jesus-took-my-friend-away/332629.md?page=4)