# Jetsgo says 'oops', 17,000 passengers out of a flight **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196 "2005-03-12T15:29:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/41 "2005-03-14T18:00:56Z")
I still haven’t seen anyone list better alternatives to what happened. Announcing a month ago that the business was in trouble gives them NO chance of getting back into good standings and puts employees out of work sooner. So someone’s getting screwed no matter what if the company goes down, but at least there’s a chance with taking the route that they did. That said, I definitely have a problem with their selling tickets when they KNEW they were shutting down. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/42 "2005-03-14T19:52:50Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > I have to wonder what on earth Air Canada has to do with Jetsgo. To paint with a very broad brush, and with no cites… AirCanada has a distressing tendancy to spend far more effort trying to drive their competition into the ground than in running a decent airline. Then, when they find themselves in trouble due to this focus, the government bails them out…and their competitor goes down in flames. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/43 "2005-03-14T21:43:36Z")
> [@the Lady](#): > > To paint with a very broad brush, and with no cites… > > AirCanada has a distressing tendancy to spend far more effort trying to drive their competition into the ground than in running a decent airline. Then, when they find themselves in trouble due to this focus, the government bails them out…and their competitor goes down in flames. This still doesn’t explain why Rebekkah posted that she won’t fly Air Canada. Further, Jetsgo is blaming Westjet for their demise. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/44 "2005-03-14T22:04:39Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > who would invest their money or run a corporation if by doing so they’re accepting unlimited personal liability? Unlimited liability? Of course not. Liability covering only your increase in assets dating after your assumption of duties and acceptance of company responsibility? I can get behind that. It’d certainly put a crimp in the activities of serial fraudsters like this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/45 "2005-03-14T22:08:18Z")
> [@the Lady](#): > > AirCanada has a distressing tendancy to spend far more effort trying to drive their competition into the ground than in running a decent airline. Then, when they find themselves in trouble due to this focus, the government bails them out…and their competitor goes down in flames. Care to elaborate on how you reached this conclusion? How about citing some specific behaviour that reveals this “tendency?” > [@](#): > > Once the group that’s first in priority are all paid out, you move on to the next prioritiy group, such as the bankrupt’s employees. IIRC in Canada, salaries come before everything else. In fact, if there aren’t assets to cover salaries, the officers and directors of the company are **personally** liable. As in, the courts can come and take your house, car, jewelry and whatever else takes their fancy to pay the employees. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/46 "2005-03-14T22:27:25Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > IIRC in Canada, salaries come before everything else. In fact, if there aren’t assets to cover salaries, the officers and directors of the company are **personally** liable. As in, the courts can come and take your house, car, jewelry and whatever else takes their fancy to pay the employees. I read in the paper this weekend that yes, employee salaries and vacation time, etc., will be paid in accordance with Canadian law. Sorry I don’t have a link. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/47 "2005-03-14T22:41:00Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > Care to elaborate on how you reached this conclusion? How about citing some specific behaviour that reveals this “tendency?” Not really. That’s why I framed it as wishy-washily as I did. People unfamilliar with the Canadian airlines were asking about some of the comments made earlier, and provided a comment on why that perception existed. Oh, I and I personally don’t fly AirCanada cause they are jerks. (and no, I won’t cite each and every example that I, personally, have experienced) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/48 "2005-03-15T01:55:02Z")
How about [Air Canada’s near persecution of West Jet over information about Air Canada that West Jet got from a website?](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/07/aircansuit_040407) And, in a companion piece, [WestJet sues Air Canada for abuse of judicial system.](http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/12/15/westjet-121504.html) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/49 "2005-03-15T05:45:32Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > IIRC in Canada, salaries come before everything else. In fact, if there aren’t assets to cover salaries, the officers and directors of the company are **personally** liable. As in, the courts can come and take your house, car, jewelry and whatever else takes their fancy to pay the employees. Here’s the list of priorities from the [Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/B-3/6710.html) (I’ve simplified a bit): > [@](#): > > **136.** (1) Subject to the rights of secured creditors, the proceeds realized from the property of a bankrupt shall be applied in priority of payment as follows: > > (a) in the case of a deceased bankrupt, the reasonable funeral and testamentary expenses incurred by the legal personal representative of the deceased bankrupt; > > (b) the costs of administration, in the following order, > > indent the expenses and fees of any person acting under a direction made under paragraph 14.03(1)(a), > > (ii) the expenses and fees of the trustee, and > > (iii) legal costs; > > (c) the levy payable under section 147 [a levy to the Superintendant of Bankruptcy to finance the federal bankruptcy process]; > > (d) **wages, salaries,** commissions or compensation of any clerk, servant, travelling salesman, labourer or workman for services rendered during the six months immediately preceding the bankruptcy **to the extent of two thousand dollars in each case,** …; > > (d.1) claims in respect of debts or liabilities referred to in paragraph 178(1)(b) or (c), if provable by virtue of subsection 121(4), for periodic amounts accrued in the year before the date of the bankruptcy that are payable, plus any lump sum amount that is payable; > > (e) municipal taxes assessed or levied against the bankrupt, … ; > > (f) the landlord for arrears of rent for a period of three months immediately preceding the bankruptcy … ; > > (g) the fees and costs referred to in subsection 70(2) but only to the extent of the realization from the property exigible thereunder; > > (h) in the case of a bankrupt who became bankrupt before the prescribed date, all indebtedness of the bankrupt under any Act respecting workers’ compensation, under any Act respecting unemployment insurance or under any provision of the Income Tax Act creating an obligation to pay to Her Majesty amounts that have been deducted or withheld, rateably; > > (i) claims resulting from injuries to employees of the bankrupt in respect of which the provisions of any Act respecting workers’ compensation do not apply, but only to the extent of moneys received from persons guaranteeing the bankrupt against damages resulting from those injuries; and > > (j) in the case of a bankrupt who became bankrupt before the prescribed date, claims of the Crown not mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (i), in right of Canada or any province, rateably notwithstanding any statutory preference to the contrary.[/indent] So employees come before the landlord (my mistake - I thought it was the other way around), but they still come fourth, and only to the amount of $2000 per employee. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/50 "2005-03-15T05:55:40Z")
Oh, and as always, the above is not intended as legal advice, but simply to comment on a matter of public interest. If you’re planning on running your company into the ground (hmmm - bad metaphor for an airline), find yourself a nice high-priced bankruptcy lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![mcott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@mcott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcott)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/51 "2005-03-15T06:42:28Z")
> [@the Lady](#): > > To paint with a very broad brush, and with no cites… > > AirCanada has a distressing tendancy to spend far more effort trying to drive their competition into the ground than in running a decent airline. Then, when they find themselves in trouble due to this focus, the government bails them out…and their competitor goes down in flames. I’ve been at work all weekend so couldn’t reply, but we’ll start with this, and move on (note, please, I’ve been at work trying to rebook people who were on JetsGo, so am quite displeased at them right now). The key word in the above quote is competition. The airline business is very competitive. What company woundn’t try to fuck their competition? Legality is for the courts to decide. As to the government bail outs, I can state, (and I will reread the damn book to find cites if I have to) that this is a bulshit statement. Read Air Monopoly by _Keith McArthur_ for a good overview of how the Canadian Government was harsh on Air Canada, denying them bailouts at most turns. > [@the Lady](#): > > Not really. That’s why I framed it as wishy-washily as I did. People unfamilliar with the Canadian airlines were asking about some of the comments made earlier, and provided a comment on why that perception existed. > > Oh, I and I personally don’t fly AirCanada cause they are jerks. Maybe you should get familiar with the Canadian airline industry yourself before allowing personal opinion to cloud your uncited ramblings. As to the jerk thing, I’m sure that’s true. :rolleyes: I mean every company that is in the service industry is staffed by jerks, right? OK, _some_ of their staff are jerks, but let me tell you, I’ve dealt with some of the most helpful agents at AC, and they are wonderful. It all goes back to “how you deal with me will be visited back on you tenfold”. Piss me off, and you’re sitting in a middle seat at the back of the bus, hopefully with a really smelly drunk person next to you. Treat me like a human being, and I will go to the mat for you. Or maybe I’m just a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/52 "2005-03-15T13:48:14Z")
> [@mcott](#): > > As to the jerk thing, I’m sure that’s true. :rolleyes: I mean every company that is in the service industry is staffed by jerks, right? OK, _some_ of their staff are jerks, but let me tell you, I’ve dealt with some of the most helpful agents at AC, and they are wonderful. It all goes back to “how you deal with me will be visited back on you tenfold”. Piss me off, and you’re sitting in a middle seat at the back of the bus, hopefully with a really smelly drunk person next to you. Treat me like a human being, and I will go to the mat for you. Or maybe I’m just a jerk. Wow! You’ve witnessed every encounter I’ve ever had with an airline? That’s amazing. Or possibly worrying. And thanks for the implication that I in some way deserved the nasty behaviour. I have never had a bad encounter with Canadian, Canada 3000, WestJet, AirTransat or even AmericaWest. I must be a very selective jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/53 "2005-03-15T19:59:40Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > How about [Air Canada’s near persecution of West Jet over information about Air Canada that West Jet got from a website?](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/04/07/aircansuit_040407) From an _employee_ website that they [illegally accessed](http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/business/article.jsp?content=20040920_88645_88645): > [@](#): > > WestJet was dipping into private Air Canada files online and passing the information around the executive suite. The tipster reported that he had seen a multicoloured page filled with Air Canada’s flight load data – industry jargon for the number of passengers flying on a specific flight – on a senior executive’s computer. > [@featherlou](#): > > And, in a companion piece, [WestJet sues Air Canada for abuse of judicial system.](http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/12/15/westjet-121504.html) I’d be very surprised if WestJet hadn’t counter-sued. In fact, I’d defy you to find a major lawsuit where the defendant _didn’t_ counter-sue. Oh, and [JetsGo sued WestJet](http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2004/10/15/jetsgo_041015.html) for sleazy business practices as well. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/54 "2005-03-16T00:23:15Z")
> [@the Lady](#): > > I have never had a bad encounter with . . . Canada 3000 . . . . Hey, I flew with them and lived to tell about it. On the flight out from Toronto to Vancouuver, the seats were so tightly packed together that I could not open my lap-top, but even if I could, it wouldn’t have made any difference because the attendants repeatedly required my lap space to hop up on so as to put pillows in and out of the overhead storage compartment. Ne shitteth vous pas – a couple of them kept climbing up on me. And speaking of shite, something was amiss with the in-flight meal, for about half an hour after the meal, several dozen people lined up to use the washroom. The air became foul very quickly. The worst came with the inflight movie. The VCR was in the overhead storage compartment across from me. Toward the end of the fligh, the VCR started smoking and had to be disconnected and squirted with an extinguisher. The flight back from Vancouver a few days later was much more tranquil. Or more correctly, the wait for the flight was tranquil. The plane was broken, and the repairs went into the evening. The good people at Canada 3000 went home, leaving us passengers at the end of a very long boarding corridor. Then the airport people for that corridor went home, after shutting the lights out on us. So there we sat, for most of the night, in the dark, at the end of a very long corridor. So when I heard that JetsGo bought much of Canada 3000’s fleet and employed many of Canada 3000’s staff, I decided that no matter how low the fares, I would not fly with them. If JetsGo gets creditor protection and starts flying again, I still won’t fly with them. If another company buys many of JetsGo’s planes, then I won’t fly with that company. But enough of such negativeness. If you ever get a chance, hitch a ride on a Bearskin flight in one of their commuter-sized planes. The pilots will dip down for you to look at lakes and communities, or zoom about the clouds as you direct them, and all they ask in exchange for such fun is that you play steward and pass the sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/55 "2005-03-16T00:56:02Z")
Christopher Thomas of Measured Markets (a share tracking business) noted on TVO this evening that there was a large increase in trading of WestJet shares on March 9th and 10th prior to JetsGo going out of business on March 11th. Got’ta wonder – any insider trading? ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/56 "2005-03-17T02:27:56Z")
I don’t have much to add to the ongoing fight about the rightness or fairness or what have you of doing business as usual without warning 17,000 people that you won’t be able to provide the service for which you’ve been paid; rather you will leave them stranded hundreds or thousands of miles from their homes and families with little or no recourse. I will, however, say this is just 1 more reason that I don’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196/57 "2005-03-17T02:49:30Z")
Just want to throw in my two cents here. A friend had an interview yesterday in Ottawa for medical school and was supposed to fly back to school today in time for a mid-term. Well that didn’t happen and the prof will excuse her out of it, thus making the final in the course worth 70% for her. Which is a shame since the mid-term wasn’t too bad. I’m sure the 9 hours or so on the train just flew by for her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jetsgo-says-oops-17-000-passengers-out-of-a-flight/294196.md?page=2)