# Jewish dopers: "A Jew" vs "Jewish" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219 "2009-12-14T15:43:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/21 "2009-12-14T16:33:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suppose if you wanted to get technical about it, you would be better off using _Judaic_ to refer to matters related to the faith. I kind of like that idea, actually… > [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > - **Malleus** , a Jewish Jew who practices Judaism. I think “a Jewish Jewess” sounds even cooler! 🙂 (and yes, Political Correctness be damned…) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/22 "2009-12-14T16:37:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Not trying to be a smartass here (although it’s difficult for me: I’m in a 12-step program): How is being “Jewish” different from being “Muslimish” or “Christianish” or “assholish”? Generally, the -ish appendage to a word implies that someone is exhibiting behavior typical of the descriptive: in other words, it is usually used as a pejorative. It’s interesting that “Jewish” has evolved into the preferred term rather than being an insulting description. They’re different parts of speech. “Jewish” is an adjective, “Jew” is a noun." Using the noun form can sometimes come off as a reductive – “Jewish” is part of who a person is, “Jew” can sometimes reduce a person to just that one characteristic, which comes off as crass. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/23 "2009-12-14T16:41:48Z")
Yeah, I prefer “Jewish” to “A Jew”. Never really thought about why before. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Electric\_Warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Warrior)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/24 "2009-12-14T17:02:56Z")
Another vote for preferring “is Jewish” to “is a Jew”. I have no issue with “Jews” instead of “Jewish people” though. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/25 "2009-12-14T17:07:44Z")
I think it sounds bad not because there’s something inherently strange about the word’s connotations, but rather because it’s usually only anti-Semitic ignoramuses who use “a Jew” to the exclusion of “Jewish”. Wrongly or rightly, the word has been stained by those who use it sinisterly, and regular people instinctively shy away from it for fear of sounding like a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![fandango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5ac83/32.png) [@fandango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fandango)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/26 "2009-12-14T17:57:10Z")
I think the Jew/Jewish squeamishness could be related to the Jap/Japanese situation. Someone from Japan is a Japanese person, and ever since WWII calling them a “Jap” is highly offensive–although the word “Jap” in itself should carry no other connotation than “Japanese”. In a related vein, we just had a Sexual Harrasment training. One of the quotes used was of a person complaining that co-workers were calling them “a transgender” instead of just “transgender”–clearly grounds for a sexual harrasment complaint. I never knew this was offensive (Hell, I am still not entirely clear what “transgender” actually is. I understand transsexual (both pre-op and post-op) and transvestite, transgender is new to me.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/27 "2009-12-14T18:01:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re different parts of speech. “Jewish” is an adjective, “Jew” is a noun." Using the noun form can sometimes come off as a reductive – “Jewish” is part of who a person is, “Jew” can sometimes reduce a person to just that one characteristic, which comes off as crass. I can accept that. I think. However, there are innumerable references to Jews in the Old Testament, whereas I’ve never seen a reference to an “Ire” or an “Eng”. British certainly is often reduced to “Brit”, and Eire is the auld name for Ireland, but not for the people (or did it used to be “Eire-ish”?). Then again, nobody refers to the Jew people, but rather Jewish people. It would seem that the word Jew being seen as a pejorative may be a product of more recent persecutions, nay? I’m going to have to take this up with our new friend and her husband. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/28 "2009-12-14T18:04:52Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Couldn’t care less either way. > > - **Malleus** , a Jewish Jew who practices Judaism. ARRGH! I heard that in Cartman’s voice! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/29 "2009-12-14T18:11:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It depends a lot on tone and circumstance. It can be used non-offensively, especially in the collective (“…when the Jews return to their homeland”), but it can also be use crassly, especially when used in the singular (“a jew”) and even more so when used in the 2nd person (“I didn’t know you were you a Jew”). > > There’s no hard rule on it. You just know the crassness when you hear it. I would add that using _Jew_ as a verb is always offensive, for reasons left as an exercise for the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/30 "2009-12-14T19:04:00Z")
FTR, saying ‘a Jew’ rather than ‘Jewish’ can also be referred to as[’dropping a hard J.’](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hard%20J) All about context, though for the most part it makes me bristle in the same way ‘a gay’ does, for the reasons **DrFidelius** mentions. But I rarely hear it except in an ironic tone, among Jews and gentiles. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/31 "2009-12-14T19:11:27Z")
My wife’s a Jew, and calls herself a Jew. In fact, “Jew” seems to be the word of choice both in her family and in our temple. “Jewish”, in contrast, seems a little precious. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/32 "2009-12-14T19:53:02Z")
There is nothing about being a noun instead of an adjective that makes Jew an uncomfortable word or reduces a person to that characteristic. If it were, calling a person a Christian would be similarly uncomfortable. It’s purely the fact that Jew has been and still gets used as a pejorative (“you Jews gonna jew me out of my money”) that makes it unpleasant. The Jap comparison is apt. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/33 "2009-12-14T20:08:43Z")
To the OP, I was befuddled by that dialog as well. I think the exchange was, > [@](#): > > “Oh!! I didn’t know you were… a Jew.” > > “I’d prefer you use the whole word.” Which made me think: 😕😕😕 A Jew… ess? A Jewess?!? Isn’t that right up there with “negress?” I guess that the character’s intent was “a Jewish person” but the mismatched grammar threw me off. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/34 "2009-12-14T20:25:14Z")
Up until my middle teens, I thought calling someone a Jew was an insult, akin to calling someone a n\*gger, and that the proper term was “a Jewish person.” To this day I cringe just a bit when I hear “… a Jew.” ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/35 "2009-12-14T20:51:58Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > No preference. Just please don’t use the clunky politically correct “Jewish person” that one sometimes hears. For Og’s sake, don’t be awkward. If you’re relaxed, the other party will usually follow suit. FWIW, I find this whole thing to be entirely about age. I’m in my early 20’s, and one group of my friends loves to tell stories or jokes including phrases like “so a bunch of gentiles walked up…” or “a bunch of jews strolled in…”. One Jewish kid’s father overheard the jokes and was incredibly insulted - and it was his son telling the joke! My age group finds religious and ethnic differences comfortable. We’re not going around telling Holocaust jokes, but we find humor in the everyday differences and parodies of our backgrounds. That said, you CAN use Jew as a pejorative - but it is exactly the same as you could use any religious descriptor someone’s not comfortable with. Like my mom saying "Oh my God you’re…_ **an agnostic!?!** _ The joke from Community was as funny but older…like someone my parents’ age wrote it. - **lindsaybluth** , irreligious but ethnically half a Jew ---
**Author:** ![sinusoidal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@sinusoidal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinusoidal)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/36 "2009-12-14T21:10:45Z")
I was watching the BBC documentary “Ways of Seeing”, and at one point the narrator refers to a “homosexual”. This was incredibly jarring to my modern ears, where homosexual is an adjective rather than a noun. I agree with the previous posters who pointed out that by using “Jew” as a noun rather than the adjective “Jewish”, they are needlessly reduced to this ethnic or religious quality rather than being considered a person. I am not Jewish, either, so take this with a grain of salt, but it tends to be the anti-Semitics who talk about “the Jews”, so even when someone says “I’m a Jew” I jump a bit. It’s probably just my white middle class shame. ---
**Author:** ![LunarPlexus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@LunarPlexus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LunarPlexus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/37 "2009-12-14T22:55:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I have heard that saying he’s ‘a jew’ was not nice, but I heard that from the type of person that is overly offended at everything (not Jewish) and so I took it with salt. > [@sinusoidal](#): > > I am not Jewish, either, so take this with a grain of salt That better be Kosher salt. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/38 "2009-12-15T00:23:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I think it sounds bad not because there’s something inherently strange about the word’s connotations, but rather because it’s usually only anti-Semitic ignoramuses who use “a Jew” to the exclusion of “Jewish”. Wrongly or rightly, the word has been stained by those who use it sinisterly, and regular people instinctively shy away from it for fear of sounding like a bigot. I agree with this. But I routinely refer to myself as a Jew. I won’t let the jerks ruin a perfectly good and useful word. Nevertheless, I can see why it sounds “off” to some people. You know, I remember reading some young adult book–maybe a Judy Blume book? Anyway, the protagonist’s friend’s mother always said (IIRC) “person of the Jewish persuasion,” thinking that was way more polite. :rolleyes: Like others have said, trying too hard to avoid saying Jewish or Jew is way more offensive than just calling a Jew a Jew. > [@Noone\_Special](#): > > I don’t have a specific preference for either term – but on a slightly (or maybe more than slightly) related note, I **really, really, really** wish there were a good way to distinguish between adherents of Judaism (the religion) and people who are ethnically/culturally Jewish. Maybe it’s just me, but I see “Jewish” as referring more to the religious side and “Jew” as referring more to the ethnic/cultural side. I dunno why, though. –A person who’s totally a Jew but isn’t particularly Jewish ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/39 "2009-12-15T00:36:37Z")
I’m not Jewish, but I’ve always felt that “a Jew” or “The Jews” sounds antagonistic if not hateful. But not only that, it’s hard to think of a way one could use the word without implying that the Jewishness of the person or persons under discussion is somehow at the root of whatever it is you’re going to say about them. Consequently, whatever you would say applies more or less to all Jewish people. It would be the same with “the Christians”, and so forth. On the other hand, I’d have to acknowledge an exception in some historical or geographical contexts, like when one discusses the Sephardic or Ashkenazi Jews. Speaking of the latter, I’ve been interested to observe that they often use the word “Jewish” to mean Yiddish, which I don’t think I’ve ever heard from a Gentile. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219/40 "2009-12-15T00:51:10Z")
Words acquire connotations from how they have been used in the past. There is nothing inherently wrong in someone saying that I am a Jew, but the word has a acquired a patina of ridicule. I would also prefer their saying that I am Jewish. There is no logic to this, but that’s the way it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-a-jew-vs-jewish/521219.md?page=3)