# Jewish Dopers: Have you ever watched the film "Defamation"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018 "2011-01-18T00:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/41 "2011-01-18T20:20:02Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Those are home grown terrorists. The terrorists Israel has to deal with are not within Israel’s borders. Um… where are they, then? If you’re not counting the areas under PLO control as part of Israel, then you shouldn’t be counting the Basque country as part of Spain, either. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/42 "2011-01-18T22:25:15Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > But this said, it seems that when there is an anti-Semitic incident in Montreal, the perpetrator turns out to be someone of Arabic heritage. I assume the same is probably true in Toronto as well. So I don’t believe your hypothesis is true in this case, and think anti-Semitic incidents in Montreal and Toronto are quite comparable. Yeah, that’s a fair point. I will say, though, that Montreal’s incidence rate per capita is higher (since Greater Montréal is less than half the size of the GTA.) ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/43 "2011-01-18T22:34:18Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > “Much-despised” is much of an exaggeration. But I understand your hypothesis. I know I don’t consider Jews as any different from any other English Canadian, except for the fact that they can and do use accusations of anti-Semitism as a rhetorical weapon. But it is true that in my mind, they are automatically English Canadians, and likely not able to speak a word of French, so by necessity separate from this society. (I’ve heard that there are Sephardic Jews from North Africa who immigrated to Quebec, probably specifically Montreal, largely because it is a French-speaking society, but I’ve never met any.) > > As well, say “Jew” around here and the image that will come to most people’s minds will be Hasidic Jews who made the news in the last few years because of their illegal schools, their refusal to deal with female police officers, and their attempts to force a YMCA in Montreal to put opaque glass in their gym room’s windows so they wouldn’t see the women inside. I know that ultra-Orthodox Jews everywhere try to stay apart of the rest of society as much as possible, and have some severe religious rules to follow, but for better or for worse they aren’t seen as a very positive contribution to this society. > > But this said, it seems that when there is an anti-Semitic incident in Montreal, the perpetrator turns out to be someone of Arabic heritage. I assume the same is probably true in Toronto as well. So I don’t believe your hypothesis is true in this case, and think anti-Semitic incidents in Montreal and Toronto are quite comparable. I’m somewhat surprised you haven’t met any North African Francophone Jews, as they are about a quarter of the city’s Jewish population. I’m also surprised that the first people which Montrealers associate with “Jews” are Hassidim, who must be about 5% of the Jewish population. In my mind, “Montreal Jew” = Mordecai Richler. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/44 "2011-01-18T22:38:24Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > I’m somewhat surprised you haven’t met any North African Francophone Jews, as they are about a quarter of the city’s Jewish population. I’m also surprised that the first people which Montrealers associate with “Jews” are Hassidim, who must be about 5% of the Jewish population. In my mind, “Montreal Jew” = Mordecai Richler. I dunno if that will make him like them any better. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/45 "2011-01-18T22:48:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I dunno if that will make him like them any better. 😃 I get the impression that a scary number of Francophone Montréalers have never heard of him! :eek: But no, for those who have,… just, no. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/46 "2011-01-18T22:53:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I dunno if that will make him like them any better. 😃 I know. I guess I was returning to the “despised Anglophone” theme. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/47 "2011-01-19T00:00:06Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > That’s not a message that the continued education on and analysis of the past is important and should be maintained. The concept of putting “emphasis on the past” (illustrated by the film cutting to school children visiting one of the camps and Foxman talking about how having Israeli support now gives him hope) is said to be holding [Jews and/or Israelis] back and is contrasted with “living in the present and looking to the future.” But they’re not mutually exclusive, and the editing was done in such a way to deliberately show the worst bits. You referred to it as ‘over-the-top paranoia’, but it’s not. The closest that a the film showed was one girl who either misheard or misinterpreted an old guy’s comments (if the film maker’s translation was correct). And this happened in Poland, one of the few places on the planet that _kept murdering Jews after the Third Reich fell and their nation was liberated_… hardly over-the-top paranoia. You don’t think a teenager saying she wants to kill all the “Nazis” she saw at the airport “over the top”? Or instead of just saying that there were three old guys who she had an awkward encounter with, a girl told the camera that they called her terrible slurs…even though it was evident from the footage that that’s not what happened at all. That’s not over the top to you? Or when the kids were ushered into their hotel rooms because they were making a lot of noise, two students interpreted that to mean some Nazis were going to bust in on them and attack them, so they needed to bunker down. That’s not over the top to you? Yes, the guy did some creative editing, no doubt. But not during those parts. The kids spoke for themselves and they were spouting nonsense. It’s kind of like the time when I went to Europe with my high school orchestra, and a maniac driver almost hit one of the girls (black) who I was with. She immediately cried racism and made a big to-do about it, when it was probably more likely that the guy was just a crazy maniac. Of course, he could have been a crazy maniac AND a racist, but she only had evidence of one thing, not the other. That’s an example of over-the-top paranoia. Wouldn’t you say? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, it wouldn’t. Blacks aren’t Jews, and you can’t replace one group with another group, and expect the analogy to hold. Explain why not, please. Oh, here it is. Let’s see… > [@](#): > > The Holocaust is relevant and should be taught in sufficient depth because it was very recent So was Jim Crow. My parents were teenagers when the last vestiges of Jim Crow were officially negated by the Civil Rights Act of 1965. Were your parents teenagers during the Holocaust? > [@](#): > > …it occurred in a supposedly enlightened European nation… The US considered itself a very enlightened place, where all men had the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And the guy who wrote that last line was full of hypocritical bullshit. But I guess that was back in the “olden” times and thus not relevant at all to the history of this country. > [@](#): > > …it occurred with methodical precision and deliberate intent… Slavery and the ills that followed were what? Accidental? Clumsily implemented? > [@](#): > > …the nations of the world largely stood by and let the runup to the Holocaust happen; even the United States refused to let the St. Louis into the country… But countries eventually stopped the madness, right? Delayed reaction, yes. But the Jews did not free themselves from the Holocaust. > [@](#): > > …and nations like the UK continued to capture and imprison Jews for years after the war and forced them to remain imprisoned or return to the countries (like Poland) which they’d fled from and in fact kept thousands of people imprisoned, who wanted to immigrate to Israel, even after Israel had been established as a sovereign state. To say nothing of the fact that the Holocaust was one of the reasons why so many Jews went to and/or helped establish the nascent state of Israel. And here we go. Look, **FinnAgain**. I’m not trying to play the “more oppressed than thou” card. I _hate_ that game. But if you do a search on this board on the terms “race-baiter” or “race card”, I bet you 99% of time, you will turn up some accusation levied against a black person or black people. Even when their ire is justified (like the “nappy headed hos” thing comes to mind). But Jews are not treated like that…not on this board. Their oppression is treated more delicately, without any qualification or excuse-making. If you rewatch the film, Foxman almost demands from the Ukrainian delegation to not even _think_ about comparing the Stalinist genocide of the Ukrainians and the Jewish Holocaust, because doing so, he says, would be “counter-productive.” I have heard this before. Don’t you dare compare the Holocaust to slavery! As if the millions of black people who died during the Middle Passage, and the misery of millions of others who were abused and mistreated for hundreds of years cannot possibly compare to the Holocaust. Tragedy is tragedy. That we must walk on tippy-toes when it comes to both the Holocaust and Israel is what makes people angry. The former was HORRIBLE, ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. The latter is ENTITLED TO EXIST. But there has to be some room in there for non-Jews to talk about these things without being preached to as if “we don’t understand.” Black people, of all people in the US, understand oppression. The Holocaust is not so unique that parallels cannot be drawn from it to other HORRIBLE TERRIBLE BAD THINGS. “Never forget” shouldn’t be something reserved for the Jews. It should be used when it comes to the travesties that took place in Bosnia, Rwanda, Dafur, or Armenia. No one people has a monopoloy on that word. I do not think the filmmaker was angelic, but I think only an idiot would advocate not teaching people about the Holocaust. And I don’t think he was an idiot. When people stand on their soap box and preach to black people about the chips on their shoulders, admonishing them for not “thinking forward”, I don’t even think those people would advocate not teaching about past oppression. It’s a major part of history–you can’t neglect it. But it is possible to get mired in it, to let it wrap itself around you and identify you as a victim, even when you far from it. That’s the message that I got from the filmmaker. Not just"look forward, don’t look back." > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Being successful is not protection, at all, against being hated. In point of fact it can often serve as the _justification_ for that hatred. Of course not. But for it to matter, hate must be manifest in action. If the ADL can only come up with a little over a hundred incidents (with no breakdown of how minor or major those incidents are), then why should Jewish people _care_. I know lots of people hate black people. All you have to do is read the comments on any Yahoo article or youtube video and you can see that. But do I live in fear? Do I yearn for my own separate country because of it? Do I cry “NEVER FORGET!” to ward off the hurt feelings? No. I just shrug my shoulders and say to myself, “the internet is full of stupid people. Hope I don’t know any of them in real life.” People hate Jesse and Al, but at least they don’t have a database that records complaints from people who can’t get the day off for MLK day. Even I would hate them if they did that. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/48 "2011-01-19T01:32:07Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But countries eventually stopped the madness, right? Delayed reaction, yes. But the Jews did not free themselves from the Holocaust. What utter nonsense. Not a single country intervened to stop the Holocaust. Those who fought did so because Nazi Germany declared war on them or their close allies. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/49 "2011-01-19T01:55:56Z")
Yeah, the involvement of Norman Finkelstein pretty much tips you off to what’s going on here. The hard left’s position for some time now has been that there is no such thing as anti-Semitism, and anyone who claims it exists in any context is just an apologist for Israeli military policy. You don’t have to go to Poland to find out how wrong this is (though if you do go to Poland with any visible signs of Judaism you should probably go with a bodyguard). ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/50 "2011-01-19T02:28:01Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > What utter nonsense. Not a single country intervened to stop the Holocaust. Those who fought did so because Nazi Germany declared war on them or their close allies. Whatever, dude. Knock that chip off your shoulder and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/51 "2011-01-19T02:29:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Whatever, dude. Knock that chip off your shoulder and move on. I’ll take that as “Ok, you’re right”. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/52 "2011-01-19T02:43:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not Jewish, but that movie strikes me as a gigantic load of bullshit, particularly if he’s going to treat Norman Finklestein, Walt, and Mearsheimer as serious academics. > > Yes, people who insist that the Iraq War is a result of powerful Jews forcing the US to attack Iraq for Israel’s benefit are going to claim there’s no real anti-Semitism in the US. > > Similarly, people who insist that black people are dumber than whites are not going to think racism is much of a problem in the US. Professors at Harvard & University of Chicago aren’t serious academics?!! Also, it’s quite possible to acknowledge that there is a statistical difference in psychometric test results and that ethnic bias can exist. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/53 "2011-01-19T02:43:51Z")
**monstro** , I’m not reading anyone saying that Slavery and Jim Crow should not be taught. Are you? Just that the experiences are not exactly analogous and that it is a mistake to consider them as if they were. It is a mistake to compare them too much, and forced analogies force that. And yes my parents were teen-agers during the Holocaust. Yes I lost family during it, family that I never got to meet. And **Shmedrick** is exactly correct. No country lifted a finger to stop the genocide or even to assist those who had otherwise escaped from having to return to certain death. The Holocaust was stopped only as a secondary consequence of protecting nation states from German conquest. The world did not give a shit about the massacre of half a dozen million Jews and a few million others (Roma, etc.). Some felt the Jews sort of deserved it. Why care? Because Jew hating to the point of mass murders is a _recurring theme_ over the past two thousand years. A generation or so of assimilation and success, then an economic downturn and the Jews get blamed and murdered en masse. That’s just history. The German Jews before the rise of Nazism were highly successful overall, both in academic and economic circles. They were highly assimilated and listened more to classical German composers than to Klezmer. Until the German economy collapsed after WW1. What would make anyone believe that historic patterns have just stopped, that human nature has suddenly changed? Things are not so bad in America now, but my father had to pretend to be Italian to make sales and I’ve personally was called a kike and a Jewboy in college (and honestly thought I was going to be killed, literally battered body found, when I got into a fight with that very large football player racist in response. And the funny punchline was that I got out having come out on top and the first person I ran into to vent to was a guy who was the one Black guy in my otherwise White and more than half Jewish fraternity, who gave me the greatest look when I innocently vented and asked if he had any idea what it was like to come up against something like that … Oh, yeah, I forgot you’re Black.). A few decades into a “good” part of the cycle, in this country only really, really is not enough to relax about it. Don’t get me wrong, I think that those who chant “Never Again” and mean never again only for the Jews, rather than “never again should the world sit by while genocide occurs”, make a major mistake. But to turn Hillel’s famous saying on its head: “I cannot be the what that is only for myself, but if I am not for me, who will be?” ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/54 "2011-01-19T03:17:33Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I did, however, note that he did not show any Arab or Middle Eastern viewpoints. Just those of the West and Israel. It would be interesting to see the viewpoints of muslim people living in the West. Reading this 2003 EU report it seems Arab & middle eastern migrants tend to be responsible for a number of physical assaults. [Tapatalk - Free Forum Hosting, Free Forum Mobile App.](http://www.network54.com/Forum/187373/thread/1070454021/last-1070454734/Buried+EU+Anti-Semitism+Report+Exposed!!!!!!!+HUUUGE+REPORT+COME+OUT+AT+LAST)!!! And in December a former EU commissioner suggested it wasn’t safe in the Netherlands. > [@](#): > > see no future for recognizable Jews, in particular because of anti-Semitism, specifically in Dutch Moroccans, who continue to grow in number," Bolkestein reportedly said. > > The former politician added that the many Arab television channels in the Netherlands contribute to the spread of anti-Semitism. He said he has no confidence in proposed measures to combat anti-Jewish sentiment. > > “The Palestinian-Israeli conflict continues to fester,” Bolkestein said. “I foresee no quick solution, and anti-Semitism will continue to exist. Moroccan and Turkish young people won’t care about the measures.” > **[Jewish Diaspora | The Jerusalem Post](http://www.jpost.com/diaspora)** > > News affecting Diaspora jews, issues in the Jewish world, holidays and chagim in the Diaspora, kosher food, families and faith ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/55 "2011-01-19T03:25:38Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Then you haven’t read their book, because they specifically claim that “the Israeli lobby” was responsible for the Iraq War. > > As to the rest, well, I’m not sure why I should have to explain why it’s wrong to blame American Jews for the Iraq War or go into detail explaining why their “scholarship” is lacking. > > We don’t feel the need to do so with David Irving. Most of us recognize he’s an anti-Semite based strictly on what he says. > > That said, I’ll give just one of many examples. They set out to write a book detailing how powerful the evil Israeli Lobby is and how it controls and manipulates Gentiles to do the bidding of Jews and yet they don’t interview any congressional staffers, the people best able to go into detail of the interactions between lobbies and politicians. They don’t blame American jews though, read their article here. > [@](#): > > Pressure from Israel and the Lobby was not the only factor behind the decision to attack Iraq in March 2003, but it was critical… > > Although neo-conservatives and other Lobby leaders were eager to invade Iraq, the broader American Jewish community was not. Just after the war started, Samuel Freedman reported that ‘a compilation of nationwide opinion polls by the Pew Research Center shows that Jews are less supportive of the Iraq war than the population at large, 52 per cent to 62 per cent.’ Clearly, it would be wrong to blame the war in Iraq on ‘Jewish influence’. Rather, it was due in large part to the Lobby’s influence, especially that of the neo-conservatives within it. > **[John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby](https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby)** ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/56 "2011-01-19T04:15:50Z")
Great film, thanks for bringing it to light, **monstro**. Entertaining young man if a bit Moorish in his ways I salute him for his effort. That said, I’d think you’d know better than to bring this as a topic to GD what with all the years you’ve been here: page after page of Impenetrable Walls Of Text© defending all that’s Right with Israel. Don’t agree? Anti-Semite and/or self-hating Jew. Duh! Just ask Mr Foxman. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/57 "2011-01-19T04:25:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I would plead with you to watch the movie. Sorry, but I don’t trust documentarians who use cranks and it’s pretty clear that the filmmaker started off with a conclusion, which you seem to agree with and then decided to “prove it.” As many have pointed out he clearly either lied or heavily edited the interview with members of the ADL if he’s claiming that he couldn’t find any examples of violence against Jews. Beyond that, even if they’d found no anti-Semitic assaults in New York City, I don’t see why anyone except for a complete moron would think that means that anti-Semitism isn’t an issue in other parts of the world. What’s next, having a poll in Amsterdam which shows widespread acceptance of gays so we then decide that Beyond that, you seem to be making a real mistake regarding bigotry. You seem to be saying, “well a lack of violence against Jews proves there’s no anti-Semitism” when that proves no such thing. Now, I might be wrong, but I get the impression you’re white and one mistake a lot of white people is to misunderstand how racism and bigotry work. I’ve never been called a “raghead” or a similar slur to my face nor have I ever been threatened or attacked based on my ethnicity(at least not in the US) but that hardly means that I haven’t encountered racism. The same is true for most blacks or Hispanics I’ve met. I suspect most African-Americans have never been called a nigger to their face(at least not by a white person) or been attacked by whites, but that hardly means that racism in the US doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/58 "2011-01-19T04:38:03Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > They don’t blame American jews though, read their article here. > [John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby](http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby) Dude, I’ve read the book and they make it quite clear that they believe that the Israeli Lobby was responsible for the Iraq War. In fact you quote them specifically claiming that the Lobby was “a factor” in the decision to go to war. Now, you seem to be saying, “Harumph, harumph, they claim they don’t hate all Jews or blame all Jews so just because they believe in Jewish conspiracy theories they shouldn’t be called anti-Semites”. By your standards neither David Irving nor Father Coughlin should be labeled anti-Semites because both insisted they didn’t blame all or even most Jews for the evils of some Jewish elites. > [@](#): > > Professors at Harvard & University of Chicago aren’t serious academics?!! No, people who spew bigoted drivel are bigots regardless of where they work. People also ripped \*The Bell Curve \*apart as bigoted trash despite the fact that it was co-written by a Harvard Professor. Moreover, hacks can work at Harvard too as John Mack has fervently proven. > [@](#): > > Also, it’s quite possible to acknowledge that there is a statistical difference in psychometric test results and that ethnic bias can exist. I’m not sure you’re point here. I said that people like Harvard professor Richard Hernnstein who insist that blacks are less intelligent than whites are bigots and you seem to be conceding that the tests which “prove” this are biased or have I misunderstood you? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/59 "2011-01-19T04:39:17Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Whatever, dude. Knock that chip off your shoulder and move on. I’m not sure why you snapped at him and frankly you seem to have a bit of chip on your shoulder yourself with your complaining about the way crimes against Jews are talked about. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/60 "2011-01-19T04:39:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Whatever, dude. Knock that chip off your shoulder and move on. **monstro** , I’d invite you to imagine a history in which the abolitionists had not even existed and the indeed not only the major reason, but the only reason, slavery was abolished was as a side effect of a war fought exclusively to keep the South from seceding. And someone said, well, delayed reaction, but they stopped slavery, the Blacks didn’t free themselves. And you responded, accurately, that they didn’t do it to free the Blacks. And the response to you was “Whatever doll. Knock that chip off your shoulder.” How do you think you’d be feeling in response to that statement? Roughly 40% of the world’s Jewish population was killed off in the Holocaust and the world did _not_ act to stop it. And you dismiss it as a chip on a shoulder? You claim that as Black woman you understand oppression and you say that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018.md?page=4)