# Jewish Dopers: Have you ever watched the film "Defamation"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018 "2011-01-18T00:12:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/141 "2011-01-20T14:03:08Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > I corrected my mistake in post 62. The reason Israel can’t take the same approach as Spain is because Basque country isn’t controlled by terrorists while the Palestinian territories are. The Territories are controlled by their legitimately elected government. ISrael has had complete control of the territories in the past - did they employ different engagement techniques then? > [@](#): > > Also the demands of the terrorists are different. Hamas and Hezbollah want the destruction of Israel. The ETA just wants independence. Which (true or not) has what to do with policing vs. military action? “Oh, these terrorists want to destroy our state, so _of course_ it follows more civilian deaths are acceptable” sounds right in your head how, exactly? > [@](#): > > It would lead to less killing of civilians because soldiers can discriminate between terrorists and civilians better than rockets can. Israel currently uses rockets **because it won’t risk soldiers going into enemy territories**. So you admit it’s just a cost-benefit thing. > [@](#): > > You can say that I’m just making up history all you want, but reasonable minds can look at [civilian death totals](http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2010/) before and after the surge and conclude that the surge did reduce civilian death. That’s meaningless unless you also show that the non-civilian deaths have\* not \*also been reduced at the same time. Which they have. > [@](#): > > Not all the time. I’m not saying that everyone who thinks Israel can do more to prevent civilian death is a bigot - only that stereotypes against Jews can lead to that conclusion. Which addresses the point that policing works better than rockets how? I’ve explained my reasoning behind why I think Israel does what it does - where the hell do you read “bigot” in any of that? Israel chooses the cheaper and internally politically expedient path. I \*can \*fault them for it, but it’s still understandable. I \*haven’t \*said that Israel doesn’t place any value on Palestinian civilian lives, for instance, or even just “Jews hate Palestinians”, because \*that \*would be bigoted. And stupid. I’m not saying that everyone who attempts to shut down objections via _ad hominem_ attacks is a dishonest debater - only that stereotypical behaviour in Israel threads can lead to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/142 "2011-01-20T14:12:58Z")
Any **monstro** you see that there is some debate over what defines “anti-Semitism” as well. The second class status of Jews in the old Arab world with the smattering of massacre here and there, far less than in Europe - was that anti-Semitism? Jews were officially respected compared to most other non-Muslims. Certainly different than the massacres that occurred in the lead up to Israel’s creation and to the old European style Jew hating that has been part of mainstream Arab thought since. Is holding someone who is Jewish and involved in foreign policy in suspicion as someone who may have dual loyalty (and they are usually “just asking”) anti-Semitism? Is thinking that Jewish success is due to clannishness anti-Semitism? Is holding a stereotype in your mind that you never actually act on anti-Semitism? Not to anyone who holds those beliefs or who thinks that maybe, just maybe those things are true. (And someone who believes that Blacks are overall less intelligent than Whites is not racist in their own minds.) And it isn’t violent actions … ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/143 "2011-01-20T14:16:58Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > Why? Well, it seems a little sad because it’s celebrating the failure (or just the effort). Whereas there are many things which I would think they would want to celebrate…there are certainly many successes. > [@Alessan](#): > > There was a strong undercurrent of contempt for Holocaust survivors in Israel back in the 1950s and 1960s; fortunately, one effect of the emphasis on learning about the Holocaust has been to put that attitude to rest, thank God. Still, it goes with the Israeli belief in self-reliance and constant improvement - “it won’t happen to us again because we’ve learned from it, and now we’re better than we were before.” I suspect it’s also a bit of a defense mechanism; you can’t really deal with what happened unless you convince yourself that it can’t happen to you. Thank you. This is the sort of erudition we need around here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/144 "2011-01-20T15:04:04Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Well, it seems a little sad because it’s celebrating the failure (or just the effort). Whereas there are many things which I would think they would want to celebrate…there are certainly many successes. Regardless of how many happy times there have been in the history of the Jewish people (and I suspect it is not a large number), it would be even odder to celebrate a success on Holocaust Day. Israel does celebrate Victory Against the Nazis Day (I forget the exact name) sometime in May, and Independence Day, which I think floats because it’s designated on the Jewish calendar. Celebrating sad things is hardly unique to Israel. Remembrance Day, which is celebrated in some fashion in nearly all of the Commonwealth, is celebrated _on_ November 11, because that’s when the Germans officially surrendered in WWI… but the point is remembering the people who died in the war, not that we won it. Conversely, US Memorial Day is on the last Monday in May (and was originally celebrated on May 5) precisely because it’s not commemorating any specific event. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/145 "2011-01-20T15:04:30Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I am actually quite aware of this, thanks to our Israeli Dopers. I suppose that the fact that some ultra-Orthodox Jews are also anti-Zionist might also contribute to this dislike. I don’t know if it’s the case of the ultra-Orthodox Jews _actually living in Israel_, though. From my understanding, some are and some are not. One of the primary sources of irritation is that the ultra-orthodox are not subject to conscription. > [@](#): > > Oh yes, I know. And I may have overstated my point in this thread. What I was trying to say is that to a random francophone Montrealer, or Quebecer in general, who may not know any Jew personally as most of them are anglophone and therefore part of the “other” national group, talking about “Jews” might bring to his or her mind Hasidic Jews at first, since they are the Jewish subgroup currently most discussed in the media. This is unsurprising and probably uncontroversial. OTOH, while I said that their actions might reflect badly on the whole Jewish community, I have no evidence of this and it’s probably unlikely. It’s more likely that our collective mind stores Hasidic Jews with fundamentalist Muslims and conservative Catholics as “people trying to re-establish the rule of religion over our society”. In any case, if there are differences in the anti-Semitic acts committed in Montreal vs. in Toronto as **straight man** suggests, this is probably not the reason. Fair enough. > [@](#): > > Pretty funny, and I understand the sentiment, but yes, like **Malthus** I’ll say that the imagery makes it look “bad” especially out of context. > Would you say that you subscribe to the stereotype that the PQ is anti-ethnic minorities? 😛 Just busting your chops a little. 😃 That Parizeau quote _never_ grows old! Though any sort of ethno-nationalism is, invariably, going to be exclusionary to an extent. How can it be otherwise, when those not sharing the majority ethnicity are considered ‘outside of society’? Note that this is a problem equally for Israel and Quebec. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/146 "2011-01-20T16:41:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Even if you really did tell a friend about **RedFury** ’s post and he really did respond the way you said he did, the comment you posted was not appopriate for this forum. The question about the about the Palestinians is fine. The nonsense about penis size is not an argument and is insulting, so if you have to post that kind of thing, do it in the BBQ Pit. Fair enough. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/147 "2011-01-20T16:58:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I am officially confused. The first thing I thought about took place more than 30 years ago (and doesn’t include a K), and the second that came to my mind doesn’t include the letter K, either. > > By checking Wikipedia , I found two “K” words somewhat related to those two events, respectively Karameh and Kahan. But that would be only oblique references. I was referring to the forcible expulsion of 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait following the first Gulf War. This was one of the largest and most successful examples of ethnic cleansing since the expulsions that followed the end of WWII. Prior to the War they represented 30% of the population and had been living their since the 1940s. As appalling as it was, it was largely ignored by the media because it didn’t fit with much of people’s concepts of how the Middle East worked. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/148 "2011-01-20T17:26:31Z")
Er… cite? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/149 "2011-01-20T17:39:50Z")
This is the point I keep making about these debates, and the problem I keep pointing out. A basic command of the facts is required before anything can be discussed with any semblance of rationality. “I don’t know the facts, but I’m prepared to be difficult!” is not a formula for a sanguine discussion. I knew what you were talking about Ibn, I’m not sure many others did. And you’re right, it’s because it doesn’t fit into the narrative. The same way that the fact is that Jordan and Egypt’s invasion and subsequent control of territories in 1948 is what really prevented the formation of a Palestinian state. It’s the same reason that the deliberate and systematic massacre of Hama, Syria is ignored year after year. It’s the reason why people are up in arms during pretty much each and every single Israeli military operation, ever, but when Lebanon indiscriminately shells Palestinian refugee camps, nary a word is heard. It’s the reason why numerous Arab states have actual laws on the books which prohibit Palestinians from immigrating to and/or working in their countries, but the world doesn’t care. It doesn’t fit in with the narrative. And for you RNATB [ > [@](#): > > Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organization supported Iraqi President Saddam Hussein when his forces invaded Kuwait in August 1990. > > Kuwaitis accuse Palestinians living in the Gulf state at the time of openly sympathising with the Iraqis or collaborating with them. > > About 450,000 Palestinians lived in Kuwait before the Iraqi invasion. Most were expelled or pressured to leave after liberation, and the Palestinian community has dwindled to around 9,000. > > “Eleven years on, the authority hasn’t said one word that condemns the Iraqi occupation,” legislator and former Speaker Ahmed al-Saadoun said. ]([BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Angry welcome for Palestinian in Kuwait](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1361060.stm)) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/150 "2011-01-20T17:45:59Z")
Interesting, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/151 "2011-01-20T17:52:12Z")
Honest questions RNATB, since I’ve made my views clear… -What do you think it would say about someone’s narrative, if they self-identified as an informed supporter of the Palestinians, and they’d never heard of Kuwait’s expulsion? -Why do you think it is that there wasn’t a global outcry, and there _still_ isn’t a vocal movement to condemn Kuwait and/or get them to make things right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/152 "2011-01-20T17:57:42Z")
1. I don’t know. I am not a Palestinian supporter, informed or otherwise. I was about 10 when it happened, which may be why I didn’t know about it. 2. I don’t know the answer to that, either. I would be inclined to suggest that there’s no outcry in Europe because the European press isn’t reporting it, but there’s no outcry here either. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I supposed I would be forced to conclude that _it’s possible_ nobody cares about the Palestinians except as a tool to bludgeon the Israelis with. The article doesn’t really discuss what the Kuwaiti Palestinian community did; if _they_ (rather than just the PLO) actively supported the Iraqi occupation, I might be inclined to accept that the Kuwaitis were well within their rights to kick them out. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/153 "2011-01-20T18:33:42Z")
Well, fair enough I suppose. Just to provide you with a bit more context: -The expulsion of Palestinians from Kuwait was roughly equal (probably a bit greater), in numerical terms, than the Palestinian refugees from the 1967 war. -The number of Jewish refugees from Arab countries in and around 1948 is roughly equal to the number of Palestinian refugees created by the 1948 war. Neither of those are things that people talk much about. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/154 "2011-01-20T19:00:39Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The Territories are controlled by their legitimately elected government. ISrael has had complete control of the territories in the past - did they employ different engagement techniques then? Control over territories isn’t the issue. I made a mistake thinking Basque country was a part of Spain and I corrected it. The difference in Spain is that (and I’ll again be overly simplistic here) is that Spain could give the Basque country some independence, because the government of Basque country isn’t run by a bunch of terrorists and they aren’t calling for the destruction of Spain. It makes the territory less hostile to police efforts than the Palestinian territories. > [@](#): > > Which (true or not) has what to do with policing vs. military action? “Oh, these terrorists want to destroy our state, so _of course_ it follows more civilian deaths are acceptable” sounds right in your head how, exactly? I’ve maintained that Israel doesn’t have a real choice in the number of civilian deaths they cause. If someone wants to destroy the state then it’s less likely you will negotiated with them, and it’s more likely that the territory would be more hostile to Israeli policing. Therefore, you’d have to rely on a military strategy and not the two other more peaceful strategies (negotiated and policing.) By bringing negotiation into this I’m somewhat debating all the ways Israel could cause less civilian death. If you want to stick to the policing v. military action debate then just ignore what I said about negotiating. > [@](#): > > So you admit it’s just a cost-benefit thing. Every decision is a cost-benefit decision. I can always choose not to eat any food for the next month. I don’t because the benefits of eating outweigh the costs. But it’s also fair for me to say that not eating isn’t really a choice. And you should understand that when I say that I mean that the costs are too high for me to take the decision seriously. With Israel, the costs of using a policing strategy are too high for them. A policing strategy would not suppress the terrorists as well as a military strategy would. I don’t believe that Israel should tolerate the death of their citizens any more than they have too. Saying that Israel should take on more civilian deaths to spare the lives of more civilians in Palestinian isn’t really a choice. > [@](#): > > That’s meaningless unless you also show that the non-civilian deaths have\* not \*also been reduced at the same time. Which they have. I see now that you’re talking about reducing civilian death during the time of the attack? Then the Iraq wasn’t a good example. I don’t have evidence that going into a territory with more troops means less civilian death, but here is my theory on why that would happen: 1. More troops means terrorists are more likely to surrender faster. 2. More troops means that we could send soldiers to more places at the same time, therefore reducing the need to use rocket fire on enemy territory where we can’t send soldiers. 3. More troops means there are more soldiers available to stay in areas cleared of terrorists to make sure the terrorists don’t come back. Now, more troops could mean that you could attack more areas at the same time, which would increase death totals in the short term. But overall I think it would end civilian death because it would end the conflict a lot quicker. > [@](#): > > Which addresses the point that policing works better than rockets how? I think we’re arguing pass each other. To backtrack a little, I’m only maintaining that stereotypes against Israel lead to the conclusion that Israel has the power to prevent civilian death in Palestine. It appears that we have very different views of what it means that Israel can’t prevent civilian death. As I explained above, to me it means that they can’t achieve their objective of suppressing all the terrorists in Palestine, without risking more civilian lives at home, by using a strategy other than the one they’re using now. I agree that policing would prevent more civilian death. But it wouldn’t achieve Israel’s objectives. > [@](#): > > I’ve explained my reasoning behind why I think Israel does what it does - where the hell do you read “bigot” in any of that? Israel chooses the cheaper and internally politically expedient path. I \*can \*fault them for it, but it’s still understandable. I \*haven’t \*said that Israel doesn’t place any value on Palestinian civilian lives, for instance, or even just “Jews hate Palestinians”, because \*that \*would be bigoted. And stupid. Again, you’re not a bigot. The reason I pointed that out is that it seemed to me that you thought I believed that your views could only be reached through prejudices and not logic. I wanted to make it clear that I believe that rational people could disagree with Israel’s military policy. I reread my posts in this thread and this didn’t seem clear to me, so I wanted to clarify it. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/155 "2011-01-20T20:02:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > …(rather than just the PLO) actively supported the Iraqi occupation, I might be inclined to accept that the Kuwaitis were well within their rights to kick them out. I don’t really want to respond to anything in this thread other than this sentence that bothered me a bit. I know very little about overall Jewish history and haven’t seen the film, nor do I intend to see it. I am reading the thread out of curiosity and am learning quite a bit. That said: **Really Not All That Bright** , back toward the end of the Ottoman Empire there were these two guys [Enver Pasha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0smail_Enver) and [Talat Pasha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talat_Pasha) who blamed Ottoman Armenians for their incompetent leadership. They reasoned their failures were due to Ottoman Armenians helping the Russians. Are you inclined to think they were within their rights to ethnically cleanse the Armenians from their lands? Or would it have been better to intern them? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/156 "2011-01-20T20:03:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > No I’m not. Charles Murray has specifically claimed that as a result of “genetics” blacks were less intelligent than whites. > > That said, it’s mighty white of you to give him and Hernnstein the benefit of the doubt. > > Were I white I might enjoy the prospect that blacks are dumber than me, but I’m not so I can’t. > > Anyway, please answer my questions. > > A. Do you believed that the Israeli lobby pushed George Bush into invading Iraq and if so, who is the leader of this group? > > B. Do you think blacks are less intelligent than whites for genetic reasons? I’m not sure what the point of your questions is. What I’m saying is that you seem intent on misrepresenting what others have written in a way to create hysteria rather than debate. For example, you are asking me who the leader of the ‘Israel lobby’ is? You told me you read the book, but that question suggests you didn’t really understand their arguments: > [@](#): > > We use ‘the Lobby’ as shorthand for the loose coalition of individuals and organisations who actively work to steer US foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction. This is not meant to suggest that ‘the Lobby’ is a unified movement with a central leadership, or that individuals within it do not disagree on certain issues. Not all Jewish Americans are part of the Lobby, because Israel is not a salient issue for many of them. In a 2004 survey, for example, roughly 36 per cent of American Jews said they were either ‘not very’ or ‘not at all’ emotionally attached to Israel. > **[John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby](https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby)** B) Researchers consider that individual and group differences are due to environmental and genetic variation. > **[The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book))** > > The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy is a book published by Smith College professor emeritus Stanley Rothman and Harvard researcher Mark Snyderman in 1988. Claiming to document liberal bias in media coverage of scientific findings regarding intelligence quotient (IQ), the book builds on a survey of the opinions of hundreds of North American psychologists, sociologists and educationalists conducted by the authors in 1984. The book also includes an analysis of the reporting on intelligen... ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/157 "2011-01-20T20:14:47Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > B) Researchers consider that individual and group differences are due to environmental and genetic variation. > > [The IQ Controversy, the Media and Public Policy - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_IQ_Controversy,_the_Media_and_Public_Policy_(book)) So then you think blacks, as a rule, are less intelligent than whites at least partly due to genetics? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/158 "2011-01-20T20:25:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then you think blacks, as a rule, are less intelligent than whites at least partly due to genetics? Are all groups neurologically identical, statistically? There isn’t much evidence for that, but the problem is that most people have trouble thinking in terms of statistics and might make unfair inferences about individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/159 "2011-01-20T20:31:12Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > **Really Not All That Bright** , back toward the end of the Ottoman Empire there were these two guys [Enver Pasha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0smail_Enver) and [Talat Pasha](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talat_Pasha) who blamed Ottoman Armenians for their incompetent leadership. They reasoned their failures were due to Ottoman Armenians helping the Russians. Are you inclined to think they were within their rights to ethnically cleanse the Armenians from their lands? Or would it have been better to intern them? No, and you are applying my thoughts on one situation to another which isn’t analogous. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018/160 "2011-01-20T21:26:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m not sure why you’re under the impression that claiming to “admire” Noam Chomsky and Carl Sagan means you’re not anti-Semitic. > > Lots of racists admire “good niggers” and members of the KKK loved the show _Good Times_ and _The Cosby Show_ was a huge hit among Afrikaners in Apartheid South Africa. > > That said, after reviewing your posts it’s clear that you have a huge hard on for Israel. > > In my experience there are two types of non-Muslim, non-Arab gentiles who fit into this category. > > The first are people who genuinely care about the Palestinians and their struggle. The second are merely gentiles who love sticking it to the Jews. > > A friend of mine is convinced you’re an anti-Semite who either had a Jewish girl laugh at him when she saw how small his penis was or was forced to go to a Jewish dentist by his parents while a boy. > > I think this is crap and that you’re motivated by genuine concern for the Palestinian people. > > There’s an easy way to solve this. > > Please name the second greatest tragedy, after the Naqba, to befall the Palestinian people. > > For those confused, it happened in the last thirty years and involves a word beginning with the letter K. > > Please answer this question and prove my friend wrong, otherwise I’ll have to assume he’s correct. By now I am sure you’ve learned that this is not the proper forum to discuss your “friend’s” erm, fetishes? So you’ll pardon me if I don’t respond to that part of your most excellent post. As for the examination question, I see that an answer has already been provided – so allow me to query you back. Do you consider The Nakba a discrete historical event or an ongoing political process? ETA: Because, obviously, “Jew-hater” and “anti-Semite” weren’t enough now they’ve become “good niggers.” Holly shit…some “debate” this is. The SDMB must be proud of hosting it. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-have-you-ever-watched-the-film-defamation/568018.md?page=9)