# Jewish Dopers: The Mosiach **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-the-mosiach/685047 "2014-04-01T03:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-the-mosiach/685047/21 "2014-04-03T15:35:53Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Not disagreeing with the premise that Jewish expectations of the Messiah are difficult to nail down (though not any any more so than the Christian expectations of heaven), and it’s true that “messiah” has a meaning of “chosen one” or “annointed”. All I’m saying is that many people in the Bible (OT and NT) are called “annointed”. All but one was chosen at a specific time for a specific purpose (as was the case with Cyrus, David, Moses, Ruth, to name a few). None of those were assumed by the Jews of the time to be The Messiah, though each saved/redeemed Isreal (or the Jewish people). > > If you are arguing that Isaiah may have considered Cyrus to be The Messiah, I don’t think so - but that’s a whole 'nuther discussion. I agree that there are several anointed ones, but disagree that this means Cyrus was not the messiah. The notion of there being _the_ Messiah, the only, single and solitary in all history, is an interpretation that post-dates the Old Testament writings (in both Judaism and, of course, Christianity). In the OT, there are “messiahs”, plural, throughout history. Any age could potentially produce one. The function of a “messiah” in the later Isaiah is pretty clear - he’s to be a king who redeems Israel, and he’s specifically picked out, “named”, “equipped”, and appointed for that task by God - not just “annointed” but “taken by the hand” by God himself - even if, as in the case of Cyrus, the man doesn’t know about God at all. Hence all that stuff about God taking Cyrus by the hand, allowing him to subdue nations, and “naming” him "…“though you do not know me …”: > [@](#): > > I call you by your name, > I name you, though you do not know me. > 5 I am the Lord, and there is no other, > besides me there is no God; > I equip you, though you do not know me, … Later thinkers took the concept and expanded on it, creating the notion of messiah-dom that we know and love today - a figure that ushers in a golden age of everlasting peace (Judaism) or redeems humanity (Christianity). Such figures are by definition singular, sine there can be only one era of everlasting peace, and humanity can be redeemed only once. But earlier writers, the later Isaiah in particular, quite clearly thought differently about what a “messiah” was. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-the-mosiach/685047/22 "2014-04-03T20:20:23Z")
I’ll admit that my scholarship of Isaiah’s writings falls well short of either Rabbi or theologian, and I may not be explaining my point well, but I do think that Isaiah knew there was a difference between his prophesies of The Messiah yet to come and the the messiah of the time that he was annointing to take care of immediate business. 😉 It may be that I am projecting based on later viewpoints, but It’s hard for me to read Isaiah outside the context of “this is now, this is coming”. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-the-mosiach/685047/23 "2014-04-03T21:27:07Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > I’ll admit that my scholarship of Isaiah’s writings falls well short of either Rabbi or theologian, and I may not be explaining my point well, but I do think that Isaiah knew there was a difference between his prophesies of The Messiah yet to come and the the messiah of the time that he was annointing to take care of immediate business. 😉 > > It may be that I am projecting based on later viewpoints, but It’s hard for me to read Isaiah outside the context of “this is now, this is coming”. The problem appears to be that the saying attributed to “Isaiah” were, historically, written at different times. > **[Isaiah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah)** > > Isaiah (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}UK: /aɪˈzaɪ.ə/ or US: /aɪˈzeɪ.ə/; Hebrew: .mw-parser-output .script-hebrew,.mw-parser-output .script-Hebr{font-family:"Ezra SIL SR","Ezra SIL","SBL Hebrew","Taamey Frank CLM","SBL BibLit","Taamey Ashkenaz","Frank Ruehl CLM","Keter Aram Tsova","Taamey David CLM","Keter YG","Shofar","David The t... > [@](#): > > The exact relationship between the Book of Isaiah and any such historical Isaiah remains the subject of ongoing scholarly discussion.[a] One widespread view sees parts of the first half of the book (chapters 1–39) as originating with the historical prophet, interspersed with prose commentaries written in the time of King Josiah a hundred years later; with the remainder of the book dating from immediately before and immediately after the end of the exile in Babylon, almost two centuries after the time of the original prophet. The former bits were, if you like “he’s comming”; the latter bits, written almost two centuries later, were "he’s here! and waddaya know, he’s Cyrus the Persian! 😃 ". Naturally, Christian writers look at the former bits and assume Isaiah was prophetically foreshadowing Jesus, and not Cyrus the Persian; Jews, that he’s foreshadowing a Messiah yet to come (and again, not Cyrus). The contemporary redactors of the Old Testament clearly thought otherwise (though of course it is open to Christians and Jews alike to note that they could well have been wrong! 😉 ). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-the-mosiach/685047.md?page=1)