# Jewish Dopers: what are your opinions of the Ethiopian Jews? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759 "2009-10-06T01:40:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/81 "2014-01-24T22:01:28Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > This is my problem with the Black Hebrews I see here in Philly. They believe- > > Jesus was conceived of a virgin by the Holy Spirit > That he taught and worked miracles > That he suffered and died under Pontius Pilate > That he arose from the dead three days later > And That he ascended to heaven. > > It is my considered opinion that believing that makes them Christians, not Jews. Do that believe that salvation comes (solely) through the atonement of Christ? 'Cos otherwise, most Christians wouldn’t claim them. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/82 "2014-01-24T22:04:54Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Hmm. Well, you’ve already mentioned (correct me if I’m wrong. I certainly don’t want to put words in your mouth) that Judaism started in Africa. What sources can you point me to on that? There are plenty of books out there. I was going to link you to a site with a number of ebooks on various subjects, ranging from African religion to history, etc., but I don’t know if they took the ebooks down, or if something is wrong with my password. When I work out whatever the issue is I’ll post the link. But you can check out _‘AFRICAN ORIGINS OF MODERN JUDAISM: FROM HEBREWS TO JEWS’_ by Jose V. Malcioln. There’s also _‘The Africans Who Wrote the Bible’_ by Nana Banchie Darkwah. Maybe you can help me, how do you post youtube vids on this site? Is it allowed? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/83 "2014-01-24T22:08:50Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > But you can check out _‘AFRICAN ORIGINS OF MODERN JUDAISM: FROM HEBREWS TO JEWS’_ by Jose V. Malcioln. There’s also _‘The Africans Who Wrote the Bible’_ by > Nana Banchie Darkwah. Thanks > [@](#): > > Maybe you can help me, how do you post youtube vids on this site? Is it allowed? You can’t post videos in your posts. You can post links to videos. Unfortunately, I’m on dial up and can’t really watch YouTube or other online videos. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/84 "2014-01-24T22:09:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why? naw, I was just messing with him. 😃 > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I hope you don’t mind being challenged! Not at all, and thank you for the welcome. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/85 "2014-01-24T22:18:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A misguided attempt to correct the European bias in western history by inventing counter-historical narratives. I’ve never read any of what you termed “counter-historical narratives” to be as outright ridiculous as some of what I’ve read from European academics, who you admitted to be biased. > [@Miller](#): > > How is the idea that Judaism originated in Asia Euro-Centric? The Asians weren’t the one making that claim. It was made by European writers in an attempt to write Africans out of the history of that religion. These are the same writers that will say the current inhabitants of that region are the indigenous people of that region. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/86 "2014-01-24T22:28:31Z")
I googled “Africans who wrote the Bible” and found [this page](http://ancientsbc.blogspot.com/). It says, in part, > [@](#): > > Modern-day Jews see the Bible as a record of their history because the King James Bible is centered on the history of Israel I’ve never met a Jew who viewed the King James Bible as authoritative. We tend to go by the Torah and Talmud, not the King James. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/87 "2014-01-24T22:29:43Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > But you can check out _‘AFRICAN ORIGINS OF MODERN JUDAISM: FROM HEBREWS TO JEWS’_ by Jose V. Malcioln. Unfortunately, it’s out of print. You can read an interesting analysis of that book in _The Black Jews of Africa: History, Religion, Identity_ By Edith Bruder, in an online extract available here in part, in a chapter entitled “Appropriating Jewish Identity by the African Diaspora”. See particularly p. 78: > **[The Black Jews of Africa](https://books.google.ca/books?id=XHBjAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=%27AFRICAN%2BORIGINS%2BOF%2BMODERN%2BJUDAISM:%2BFROM%2BHEBREWS%2BTO%2BJEWS%27&source=bl&ots=eGOp8MMdsa&sig=wgglWUOiBdJeAJ-iuWRIZRWG4aU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tObiUoqmFqnf2AXerYGIBg&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q='AFRICAN%20ORIGINS%20OF%20MODERN%20JUDAISM%3A%20FROM%20HEBREWS%20TO%20JEWS'&f=false)** > > Over the last several decades, an astonishing phenomenon has developed: a Jewish rebirth of sorts occurring throughout Africa. Different ethnic groups proclaim that they are returning to long forgotten Jewish roots and African clans trace their... Essentially, there are very good reasons why some American Black nationalists adopted a Jewish origin, but these reasons are in the realm of mythology, not history. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/88 "2014-01-24T22:39:21Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Unfortunately, it’s out of print. > > You can read an interesting analysis of that book in _The Black Jews of Africa: History, Religion, Identity_ By Edith Bruder, in an online extract available here in part, in a chapter entitled “Appropriating Jewish Identity by the African Diaspora”. See particularly p. 78: > > [The Black Jews of Africa: History, Religion, Identity - Edith Bruder - Google Books](http://books.google.ca/books?id=XHBjAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq='AFRICAN+ORIGINS+OF+MODERN+JUDAISM:+FROM+HEBREWS+TO+JEWS'&source=bl&ots=eGOp8MMdsa&sig=wgglWUOiBdJeAJ-iuWRIZRWG4aU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tObiUoqmFqnf2AXerYGIBg&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q='AFRICAN%20ORIGINS%20OF%20MODERN%20JUDAISM%3A%20FROM%20HEBREWS%20TO%20JEWS'&f=false) > > Essentially, there are very good reasons why some American Black nationalists adopted a Jewish origin, but these reasons are in the realm of mythology, not history. Black Nationalists didn’t adopt anything. The history and chronology of Judaism comes from Africa, and it’s as concrete as it comes. You can dismiss it as mythology if you like, but that doesn’t change the reality. I’m not surprised at Bruder’s “analysis.” People like her have been trying to analyze African people and its culture for much longer than most of us have been alive. Problem is they’re usually wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/89 "2014-01-24T22:45:09Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > Black Nationalists didn’t adopt anything. The history and chronology of Judaism comes from Africa, and it’s as concrete as it comes. You can dismiss it as mythology if you like, but that doesn’t change the reality. > > I’m not surprised at Bruder’s “analysis.” People like her have been trying to analyze African people and its culture for much longer than most of us have been alive. Problem is they’re usually wrong. Convince me. Provide some evidence. Right now, you are arguing by assertion, which isn’t very convincing. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/90 "2014-01-24T23:10:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Convince me. Provide some evidence. Right now, you are arguing by assertion, which isn’t very convincing. I’m not arguing by assertion. I gave two sources, one of which you say is out of print. I have a site that has more sources which would allow you to read the different books for free, but as I told DocCathode I’m having trouble accessing it right at this moment. I’ll provide a link as soon as the issue is resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/91 "2014-01-24T23:20:47Z")
This is Great Debates, not Great Reading Assignments. How bout you present the argument for an African origin of Judaism in your own words? ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/92 "2014-01-24T23:25:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is Great Debates, not Great Reading Assignments. How bout you present the argument for an African origin of Judaism in your own words? I did, and was asked to provide sources. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/93 "2014-01-24T23:31:24Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > I did, and was asked to provide sources. No, you didn’t. You asserted that Judaism came from Africa, and when asked to back up your assertion, you provided excuses as to why you could not do that. You have not, to this point, provided any sort of an actual _argument_ for your position. ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/94 "2014-01-24T23:37:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, you didn’t. You asserted that Judaism came from Africa, and when asked to back up your assertion, you provided excuses as to why you could not do that. You have not, to this point, provided any sort of an actual _argument_ for your position. No, I said that the system of religion we today know as Judaism (as well as Islam and Christianity) originated in Africa. Then I was asked to “cite” sources, which I have. There hasn’t been any excuse making. My argument is based on my studying the origins of religion, and the history of North Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/95 "2014-01-24T23:44:27Z")
Right. That’s not an argument. That’s a baseless assertion. Try going for an argument next time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/96 "2014-01-24T23:45:37Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > No, I said that the system of religion we today know as Judaism (as well as Islam and Christianity) originated in Africa. Then I was asked to “cite” sources, which I have. There hasn’t been any excuse making. > > My argument is based on my studying the origins of religion, and the history of North Africa. Where did Judaism come from, in your view? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/97 "2014-01-25T00:31:38Z")
> [@coryoliver](#): > > No, I said that the system of religion we today know as Judaism (as well as Islam and Christianity) originated in Africa. Then I was asked to “cite” sources, which I have. There hasn’t been any excuse making. > > My argument is based on my studying the origins of religion, and the history of North Africa. Since your “cites” are not linkable. Give us a summary. Where and when, specifically, in Africa did Judaism arise? What archeological sites provide evidence, etc. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/98 "2014-01-25T00:34:28Z")
And perhaps an acknowledgment that you were wrong to assume I was a disingenuine academic racist? ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/99 "2014-01-25T00:53:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did Judaism come from, in your view? The essence of the religion, monotheism, comes from Africa. From the very heart of the Nile Valley. Where do you believe it comes from? ---
**Author:** ![coryoliver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@coryoliver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coryoliver)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759/100 "2014-01-25T00:55:08Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > And perhaps an acknowledgment that you were wrong to assume I was a disingenuine academic racist? I apologize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-are-your-opinions-of-the-ethiopian-jews/512759.md?page=6)