Thank you.
Actually, monotheism has existed (and arisen) in multiple locations and times in the world. While there is a popular belief (not a scholarly one) that religion evolved from animism, trhrough polytheism, through henotheism, to monotheism, (often with a subtext that it is evolving through the elimination of gods to atheism), I have never seen any actual evidence for such a belief.
Given that plus the fact that the only known example of monotheism in the Nile valley died out in a single generation, I find claims that monotheism as the “essence of the religion” or that it originated at a single place, the Nile Valley, to be unpersuasive.
Every example of monotheism of which I am aware has arisen in a time of tumult, almost as though the society seeks a unifying force in their theology and the divinity they worship.
we’re not talking about where it existed, we’re talking about where the monotheistic concept originated.
and i don’t know where you got your info. about monotheism dying out in the Nile Valley in a single generation, but it’s woefully incorrect. tragically incorrect.
I think he’s talking about Pharoah Akhenaten’s cult of Aten, which was suppressed after his death.
I see. If so, he’s still wrong.
Monotheism was practiced at least 1,000 years before Akhenaten.
There were some Egyptologists who argued there was monotheism in the Old Kingdom, most famously Budge, and later, Diop (who said that the Old Kingdom got their monotheism from Meriotic Sudan), but they never really proved it, and the view isn’t in favor now. Not to say it’s wrong, but yours is definitely the minority view.
Also, regarding Ethiopian Jews, isn’t it more likely that Judaism came to Ethiopia from Yemen? We know there was a Jewish presence in South Arabia, we know that Ethiopia had close ties to South Arabia . . .it seems likely that Judaism came to Ethiopia that way. I mean, even Ethiopian Jews don’t claim that Judaism in Ethiopia predates Judaism in Israel . . .they say that Solomon converted the Queen of Sheba to Judaism, and they had a son, Menelik, who became the first emperor of Ethiopia and converted the people.
I was, indeed, referring to Akhenaten who tried to change the Egyptian religion from polytheism to either monotheism or henotheism, but whose efforts came to nothing within a few years of his death. As I noted, monotheism has arisen in several locales and times. If you have genuine information to support your claims, I would love to see it. (I am afraid that I am not going to accept anything that Yosef ben-Jochannan invented. His ideas are nothing more than an effort to create a new mythology that is not based in actual historical or archaeological research. If you can point to the evidence that he claimed to have, we can examine that.)
Of course it was. However, it did not continue, uninterrupted, throughout that entire period, nor did it pass, unremarked, from the Nile valley to the Levant two millennia later.
The view isn’t in favor by whom? And why is mine the minority view? By whose authority? See, that’s my issue with the whole thing - you have a group of poeple who have set themselves up as the sole authorities and gatekeepers of a religion. Them simply saying it’s so doesn’t mean it’s so.
Diop’s work is as meticulously researched as any you’ll find, and Budge transcribes the actual text of the Book of Coming Forth by Day.
Menelik converting the Ethiopian people is just one theory.
That system of religion comes from the Nile Valley. The Book of Coming Forth by Day is a religious text of the people of the Nile Valley. Now, that’s the foundation of Judaism. The 10 Commandments comes from the 42 Declarations of Innocence. We’re talking about a religious system that predates the “Jews” by thousands of years. Could a modified version of it, now called “Judaism,” have returned to Africa by people calling themselves Jews? Sure. Hell, Christian missionaries said they were bringing Christianity to Africa, but they weren’t.
They were only bringing their own modified version of a religion whose origins were in Africa. It’s no different with Islam. You can find all kinds of theories and modern, popular views saying otherwise, but that doesn’t mean they’re true.
If I took your car from your garage, painted it and put some rims on it and then brought it back to you, I’m still just bringing you what was originally yours. It might not be exactly the way you remembered it, but that doesn’t change the basic fact.
Akhenaten wasn’t changing the religion from polythesim. He was trying to introduce a modified form of monotheism.
As to your comments on the late Dr. Ben, Yosef ben-Jochannan was born in Ethiopa. His people are the Falashas. If there’s anybody on this earth who could make a claim to being an “authentic jew” as opposed to a convert, it was that man. He didn’t have to invent anything, but, and this is the truly sad part, like so many of our African scholars, he spent most of his life fighting against the inventions and mythologies and flat-out lies of others.
Can you please define authentic Jew vs Convert? You’ve said versions of this a few times now and the implication that some Jews are more authentic than others is puzzling yo me.
Just as an aside, I couldn’t care less who “invented” Judaism. But the idea that some Jews are authentic and the others mere converts flies in the face of everything I learned about the ethics of Judaism.
I’m gonna ask again. Could you provide us with an address by which to investigate your beliefs?
I’ve read that Ethiopian Jews had writings more ancient than other Jews. And that Ethiopian Jews were unaware of events after the Captivity – is this correct? If true, it argues against a relatively recent arrival from Yemen. In addition to the Beta Israel, Ethiopia has the “Pagan-Hebraic” Qemant people. With both the Abbay (possibly the Biblical Gihon!) and Atbarah Rivers as tributaries of the Nile, the idea of very ancient contact between Egypt and Ethiopia is hardly far-fetched.
It does seem intriguing that arks somewhat similar to the Ark of the Covenant were in use in Egypt at the time of King Tutankhamun – the era of Akhenaten.
BTW – and even our Leader Cecil Adams gets this wrong – despite Ethiopian myth, the reconstruction by Graham Hancock makes more sense: there was an expedition from Jerusalem to Elephantine Island in the time of Manasses,the heretic King of Judah.
E. A. Wallis Budge’s translation is hopelessly inaccurate. It may have been tolerable in the early 1900’s, but even back then it was suspect. The only reason it’s so popular is because it entered the common domain. Anyone looking to make a buck off of Egyptian mythology will sell you his version. It’s free money.
Oh, only by 99,9999 % of actual historians.
because being in the 0,0001% kind of makes it the minority view.
The gatekeepers of religion… right, mmkay.
Like in Ghostbusters.
([Dana, possessed by “The Gatekeeper,” answers the door]
Dana Barrett: Are you the Keymaster?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Not that I know of.
[She slams the door in his face. Venkman knocks again]
Dana Barrett: Are you the Keymaster?
Dr. Peter Venkman: Yes. Actually I’m a friend of his, he asked me to meet him here.)
I am starting to think our new friend coryoliver has more of a point than people are letting on. Budge was a respected historian. His viewpoint shouldn’t be discarded just because most historians disagree, especially since we know that history as seen through the Western eyeball is going to be naturally biased against black Africans. I mean, come on, let’s at least concede that. If we pretend that is just not even a reality, then we are being obtuse. Let’s be honest and then you can knock down his statements honestly.
What constitutes an “actual historian.” Some of the most ridiculous theories about African history, and world history in general, have come from people deemed “actual historians.”
Actual historians told us Columbus discovered the Americas and the ancient Kemites were white. Or “dark skinned Caucasians.”
I always say that if we give these same so-called “historians” enough time, soon enough Shaka and the Zulus will be white too.
If me, you, and a group of 20 of your friends stepped into a room to debate a topic and all your friends agreed with you while I held an opposing view, that would make me the minority view. That wouldn’t mean you and your friends were right. And if we stepped outside that room and opened the discussion to a wider audience you might see those numbers change.
Here in America, there are many instances where one who opposes this or that political action or policy would be said to hold the minority view. But when we step outside of these borders we find a different story. Happens all the time.
Exactly. And on whose authority but their own?
He’s not the only one who’s studied those texts, and he’s not the sole authority on it. I understand the move to discredit his work though. African scholars have been through those texts and, as far as this discussion is concerned, the fact remains - Monotheism originated among the African people, and the 10 Commandments comes from the 42 Declarations of Innocence. That’s the foundation of what is today known as Judaism.
Exactly.
I think most people on this board agree with the idea that there is a Euro-centric bias to most published history and that Africans (and other marginalized groups) have been grossly underrepresented. I think the folks here are responding specifically to the types assertions being made and the quality of the specific evidence being used to back them up. In fact I think the responses have taken the posters claims very seriously (ie not blowing them off or simply mocking them) and are engaging in high level debate and are simply expecting the poster to do the same. What they’re not doing is simply saying “gee, that’s cool! I never heard that before”, accepting it as truth and moving on.