# Jewish Dopers - what do you think of gilgul (reincarnation)? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157 "2025-04-18T01:04:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/21 "2025-04-18T19:14:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I believe that we are all supposed to be bodily reincarnated at the end of time, which is the reason for opposition to autopsies and tattoos. You don’t want to be reincarnated chopped into little pieces, after all. Some nit picks- Not the end of time but when the moshiach comes. This could be the end of time. It could be next Tuesday. AFAIK the prohibition on tattoos is another ‘other groups do this. Jews are forbidden to do it’ law. Cremation is forbidden because it is seen as a denial of G-d’s power to raise the dead when the time comes. It is also believed to be traumatic for the soul (In case of involuntar cremation, G-d shields the soul from this). For a long time, many Jewish groups were against harvesting organs from donors. I haven’t kept up with the debate on that. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/22 "2025-04-18T19:17:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The Khartomim, is what they are called in the original Hebrew, often translated as “Magicians”. _ẖrj-ḥꜣb ḥrj-tp_ = chief lector priest; later “ḥrj-tp” became a general term for “magician” : > **[Lector priest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lector_priest)** > > A lector priest was a priest in ancient Egypt who recited spells and hymns during temple rituals and official ceremonies. Such priests also sold their services to laymen, reciting texts during private apotropaic rituals or at funerals. As such, they were some of the most prominent practitioners of "magic" (heku) in ancient Egypt. In ancient Egyptian literature, lector priests are often portrayed as the keepers of secret knowledge and the performers of amazing magical feats. > The highest-ranking l... > [@Babale](#): > > I assumed there was some etymological relation to Khartoum, Is that name even Egyptian? It is not just in Judaism that, while a serious, virtuous student may supposedly attain miraculous powers through advanced study, they are not the point, just a by-product of deep understanding/enlightenment and one is not even supposed to perform them like some common entertainer: [Iddhi - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddhi) [“While such powers are considered to be indicative of spiritual progress, Buddhism cautions against their indulgence or exhibition since such could divert one from the true path of obtaining suffering’s release.”] ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/23 "2025-04-18T19:30:44Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > AFAIK the prohibition on tattoos I’ve heard that it’s because our body isn’t ours, but belongs to God. And we should respect it and care for it. The real reason is that Leviticus 19:28 says: > You shall not make gashes in your flesh for the dead, or incise any marks on yourselves: I am the LORD. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/24 "2025-04-18T20:00:03Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > For a long time, many Jewish groups were against harvesting organs from donors. I haven’t kept up with the debate on that. I think the notion that “preserve life” takes precedence over a lot of other things has tipped the balance on that to “acceptable”, or even “praiseworthy”, particularly among the Reform/liberal branches. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/25 "2025-04-18T20:04:36Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Is that name even Egyptian? From my reading, it’s unclear _what_ the etymology is. Some people think it’s Arabic, others think it might be Beja. There are competing theories. But even if it’s for example an Arabic name, it could be Arabized from an earlier name that ties back to Nubia or Egypt. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/26 "2025-04-18T20:51:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve heard that it’s because our body isn’t ours, but belongs to God. And we should respect it and care for it. Certainly an amount of physical cleanliness is commanded along with ritual purity. OTTOMH We are commanded to wash our hands before eating. I’m sure the reason for the commandment, what exacty and precisely it means, and exactly and precisely what to do or refrain from doing in order to follow it have been thoroughly debated through the ages. But IIRC a lot of the commandments in Leviticus served to isolate Jews from the cultures around them. Personally, I believe that was part of the intent. If I can only drink certain wine, eat kosher meat, and only eat food from a kashered kitchen with two sets of utensils and dishes- I will not be eating at the houses of my gentile friends. I will probably spend more time with other Jews. If you want to keep the religion alive and distinct, those are both good things. > [@Broomstick](#): > > I think the notion that “preserve life” takes precedence over a lot of other things has tipped the balance on that to “acceptable”, or even “praiseworthy”, particularly among the Reform/liberal branches. The debate I spoke of was more in Conservative and Orthodox groups. There are a lot fo subtle arguments I barely remember. One issue is that the legal definition of death and the definition in the Talmud are not the same. IIRC, as long as a person has a heartbeat and is breathing, they are alive according to Jewish law. It does not matter if they are permanently brain dead, or if most of their brain was removed in a horrible accident. Legally, we can withdraw food and other car from such a person, wait for them to die, and harvest their organs. Under a strict reading of Jewish law, this is murder. While many things are premitted to save life, killing an innocent is not one of them. So, even though the organs in question would save several lives, it would come at the cost of killing an innocent person. OTTOMH I do not remember what the various rulings were on somebody who had no heartbeat on their own and could not breathe on their own, but is being kept alive by machines. A friend shared an article with me last year. It was an anouncement in the development of growing meat in tanks in labs. One of the poeple in the discussion was a rabbi. One of the scientists said they might be able to grow meat from cells found in pig saliva. The rabbi said that the law prohibits Jews from eating flesh from pigs (I cannot remember his exact words and his cites) but meat grown this way would be outside the prohibition. The scientist also said they could grow meat from a hair cut from a pig. The rabbi said that would not be kosher. One of the laws of Noah forbids eating ‘a limb torn from a living animal’. There have been plenty of learned Jews weighing in on whether a sentient computer would have a soul, how exactly a Jew in a space station should observe Jewish holidays as they begin and end at sundown, and othe fun things in the twenty first century. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/27 "2025-04-18T21:05:40Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > A friend shared an article with me last year. It was an anouncement in the development of growing meat in tanks in labs. One of the poeple in the discussion was a rabbi. One of the scientists said they might be able to grow meat from cells found in pig saliva. The rabbi said that the law prohibits Jews from eating flesh from pigs (I cannot remember his exact words and his cites) but meat grown this way would be outside the prohibition. The scientist also said they could grow meat from a hair cut from a pig. The rabbi said that would not be kosher. One of the laws of Noah forbids eating ‘a limb torn from a living animal’. We need to invent a Petri dish with two-toed hooves and a ruminant stomach. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2025, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/28 "2025-04-18T22:29:52Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Legally, we can withdraw food and other car from such a person, wait for them to die, and harvest their organs. That’s not what happens. In most countries death is defined as brain death, and generally the organs are harvested while the heart is still beating. AFAIK for a heart transplant, this is essential. > **[Beating heart cadaver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_heart_cadaver)** > > A beating heart cadaver is a body that is pronounced dead in all medical and legal definitions, connected to a medical ventilator, and retains cardio-pulmonary functions. This keeps the organs of the body, including the heart, functioning and alive. As a result, the period of time in which the organs may be used for transplantation is extended. The heart contains pacemaker cells that will cause it to continue beating even when a patient is brain-dead. Other organs in the body do not have this Th... I recall reading articles in the past saying this is contrary to Jewish religious definitions of death, and a reason organ donation rates are comparatively low in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/29 "2025-04-21T22:41:23Z")
I have some familiarity with a wide variety of Jewish circles, and I think I read about this concept in a book at some point, but I’ve never heard an actual Jew of any denomination talking about it in any context. Maybe Chabad believe in it, but it’s certainly not something they talk about in public. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157/30 "2025-04-21T22:46:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m not religious and do not come from a Jewish cultural background so I don’t really care but I imagine that observant and most mainline Orthodox Jews would find your approach superficial, flippant, and appropriative. As is discussed in Smapti’s thread, the ritual of Abramelin may have a foundation in Kabbalah, but various clearly non-Jewish influences have been grafted on. I think most Jews wouldn’t even consider what he’s doing Jewish enough to fall into the category of cultural appropriation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-what-do-you-think-of-gilgul-reincarnation/1017157.md?page=1)