# Jewish Dopers: What's the deal? How would you handle this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841 "2008-09-03T07:57:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/21 "2008-09-04T15:36:03Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Sorry, other than a fair amount of german ancestry, and a liking for german language, and being as protestant as you can get I would not mind learning yiddish at all. But then again, I have taken french, spanish, italian, japanese mandarin chinese and german classes. I _like_ words. Language is fun. My husband chimed in he would take yiddish if it was offered, and our roommate added she would take yiddish if it was offered. > > So there, 3 pretty much white bread protestant nonjews who would take yiddish if it was offered as continuing education somewhere nearby. Nothing to do with jews, judaism, just a shared liking for learning and an interest in languages. There is no reason for you not to learn Yiddish if you want to. I myself studied Latin even though I’m not Catholic; I just have an interest in Roman history and culture and am something of an etymology buff, so Latin made sense. Besides, it’s not like we check membership cards at the door. 😉 Robin ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/22 "2008-09-04T15:56:50Z")
> [@Li\_l\_Pluck](#): > > Or would you accuse all of us of having chips on our shoulders? No offense, but how you replied just now would make me think you DO have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. It’s not his fault that you didn’t include details that would have painted a better picture for him. He even said: > [@](#): > > …unless there’s more than you’re telling us here. Which there was. You didn’t say you had been in the classroom, ran out for a drink of water and ran back, for example. You seem extremely defensive when all he said was, (paraphrased) “based on the information given, I think you might have been overreacting”. If you didn’t want to hear anything that said you overreacted, don’t post a thread in IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/23 "2008-09-04T20:11:26Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > \ If \*all \*he’d said was something along the lines of “I’m not getting it, unless there’s something else that you’re not telling us,” I wouldn’t have gotten upset. I would’ve simply filled in whatever blanks that I thought needed filling in so that things were more clear. Which, by the way, I did. And (rightfully) took the blame myself. Imagine that. However, that is not all he did. He came into this thread and, with scant evidence of his own, and without knowing anything about the unique issues sometimes faced by Jews of color in this country–and without even asking what those issues might be–accused me of making interpretations and accusations that I very clearly didn’t make. I mean, c’mon, do I really need to explain to him (or to you) that there’s a way to say things, and there’s a way \*not \*to say things? Now, if something that I say isn’t clear (it happens sometimes), and you need more information? Cool, say that, but don’t come in here and spank me unless you’re certain that you have something to spank me about. So yes, I DO get a bit of a chip on my shoulder when people jump to, IMHO, baseless conclusions about me. You don’t? Good for you. **Everyone else** , I appreciate your replies, and I’ll respond as necessary, but right now I have to get to bed so that I can up get up and make the doughnuts on the overnight shift. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/24 "2008-09-04T21:02:38Z")
She asked you “You are here for Yiddish, yes?” That’s a perfectly legitimate and polite question to ask anyone walking in after she started. It’s practicallly a warm welcome. No matter who much you did or didn’t look “jewish” I see no reason to take offense at that. It’s not like she said, “you’re in the wrong room, this is Yiddish class!” As for the only other thing you mentioned, asking you how your Hebrew was, that seems like a harmless interaction as well. If there was nothing about her tone or attitude that was rude, I don’t see any issue, let alone a big issue. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/25 "2008-09-04T21:04:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > She asked you “You are here for Yiddish, yes?” That’s a perfectly legitimate and polite question to ask anyone walking in after she started. It’s practicallly a warm welcome. No matter who much you did or didn’t look “jewish” I see no reason to take offense at that. It’s not like she said, “you’re in the wrong room, this is Yiddish class!” > > As for the only other thing you mentioned, asking you how your Hebrew was, that seems like a harmless interaction as well. > > If there was nothing about her tone or attitude that was rude, I don’t see any issue, let alone a big issue. FWIW- to every student who walks into my class on the first day I say the same thing (well- Genetics, not Yiddish, but you get the idea). It’s a quick check and an opening line, at least for me. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/26 "2008-09-04T21:59:01Z")
Born Jew (but not practicing) here. From what I’ve seen in the thread, I would not say that the teacher was being rude - but of course there may be inflections of voice and the like which would make it so. Judaism is indeed an odd thing in the modern world, in that it is (1) a cultural heritage; (2) a status inherited matrilineally; _and_ (3) a religion. All are _supposed_ in theory to be equally “Jews”. But of course that polite fiction breaks down quickly in reality. The truly odd thing is that, for the majority of Jews I would say, the “status inherited matrilineally” part was _more_ significant than the others - so that I, whose mom was undeniably Jewish, am ‘more Jewish’ to many of my fellow-Jews than someone who spoke fluent Yiddish/Hebrew, wore a Kippah, and practiced the faith - but who did _not_ have a Jewish mom – even though my _father_ was non-Jewish and I do not practice this (or indeed any other) faith, speak Yiddish or Hebrew, or wear a kippah. It is’t exactly racism as it has nothing to do with “race” necessarily - the reason a Black Jew raises the issue is the suspicion they may not have a Jewish mom, not that they are Black (many being unaquainted with Etheopian Jews who would have Jewish moms as a matter of course!). It is, however, I would imagine quite annoying and off-putting - and something Jews are not supposed to do (that is, being rude to converts - and acting as if they are “less Jewish” seems rude to me). This attitude exaults status - which one has done nothing to obtain other than to be lucky in whose parents you have - over effort: after all, converts make the effort to actually choose to practice the faith. I suppose it is flipside of what I have always thought was something admirable about Judaism - it is the one (maybe the only) major religion which does _not_ seek converts, or even particularly _want_ converts. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/27 "2008-09-04T22:19:02Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I suppose it is flipside of what I have always thought was something admirable about Judaism - it is the one (maybe the only) major religion which does _not_ seek converts, or even particularly _want_ converts. And actively discourages conversion. My wife is non jewish and has been thinking of conversion since before she met me. We have a friend who’s mother is a Rabbi (reconstructionist, which I don’t really understand, they are sort of the Unitarians of Judaism) and her response to my wife’s questions about conversion was something along the lines of “Are you sure you want to be a Jew? REALLY sure? It’s a lot harder to be jewish than it is to be a good faithful non Jew. Really, it is. I will help you with your conversion if you want but…you know you would have to stop getting new tattoos right? Ok, ok, if you really want to. Here, read these books, if you haven’t changed your mind when you are done with them give me a call.” My mom got the same thing when she started conversion…minus the tattoo thing. We really don’t WANT converts. ---
**Author:** ![Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@Abby\_Emma\_Sasha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abby_Emma_Sasha)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/28 "2008-09-04T22:27:09Z")
You want I should have a talk with the teacher? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/29 "2008-09-04T22:30:26Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > It would be unusual for someone who is not Jewish and feels no connection to Jewish culture to take a class in Yiddish. Why? I’ve taken classes in Latin, French, Japanese, and Spanish. I am none of these things. In fact, I’d say that was kind of the point. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/30 "2008-09-04T22:37:22Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Why? I’ve taken classes in Latin, French, Japanese, and Spanish. I am none of these things. In fact, I’d say that was kind of the point. Well, it’s a (mostly) dead language that is (mostly) only spoken. I am not sure who you would practice with if you weren’t speaking to old jews. There are a few Yiddish Texts, but it’s not like there is a wealth of great Yiddish litterature. And since the formation of Israel Hebrew has taken over and the international Jewish language. There isn’t really a point to learning Yiddish unless you feel conected in some way to Judaism, or are taking it for novelty value. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/31 "2008-09-04T23:26:23Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Well, it’s a (mostly) dead language that is (mostly) only spoken. I am not sure who you would practice with if you weren’t speaking to old jews. There are a few Yiddish Texts, but it’s not like there is a wealth of great Yiddish litterature. And since the formation of Israel Hebrew has taken over and the international Jewish language. There isn’t really a point to learning Yiddish unless you feel conected in some way to Judaism, or are taking it for novelty value. Yes, but the oral history is part of the appeal. If you genuinely get a kick out of language for the sake of language or language as a reflection of the culture that created it, as opposed to language as a vehicle for literature, there’s a wealth of wonderfulness that’s wrapped up in Yiddish. It’s no different from wanting to learn Gaelic even when one has no Celtic ancestry whatsoever, or boning up on Latin even when one has no interest in ancient texts or romantic languages. Sometimes a language is worth learning for its own sake. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/32 "2008-09-04T23:35:18Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > Yes, but the oral history is part of the appeal. If you genuinely get a kick out of language for the sake of language or language as a reflection of the culture that created it, as opposed to language as a vehicle for literature, there’s a wealth of wonderfulness that’s wrapped up in Yiddish. > > It’s no different from wanting to learn Gaelic even when one has no Celtic ancestry whatsoever, or boning up on Latin even when one has no interest in ancient texts or romantic languages. > > Sometimes a language is worth learning for its own sake. Fair enough. That’s not how my head works, but I can appreciate that some people might get a kick out of learning it just for the sake of learning it. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/33 "2008-09-05T02:30:41Z")
So, this religious Israeli guy was traveling through a remote part of China. As he was walking down a country road, he heard the sound of…could that be? Yes! It was the sound of chanting! Jewish prayer! He soon found a small building and peeked in the doorway. Inside were a couple of dozen Chinese men, wearing tallises and yarmulkes, davening and praying. When they were done, he went up to the rabbi. “Rabbi!” he said in Hebrew. “It is so wonderful to find you here! Religious Jews in rural China! I would be so honored to join you in your prayers!” The rabbi looked at him with a raised eyebrow. “Funny, you don’t _look_ Jewish.” ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/34 "2008-09-05T03:03:48Z")
> [@Li\_l\_Pluck](#): > > You say you look Jewish, and that you have a Jewish surname? That’s great, because that means that no white Jew would \*ever \*ask you outside of context how your Hebrew was, or if your parents were Jewish, or if you keep Shabbat, or if you keep kosher Sorry, dude, but I look Jewish and have a Jewish surname, and I’ve gotten these questions all my life. Maybe these questions aren’t about questioning your level of Jewishness because of your color, but simply because Jews are a bunch of nosy-nellies! There are many levels of Jewishness, from atheists of Jewish ethnicity, to secular Jews who nevertheless celebrate the holidays, to all ranges of religious dedication. I think that Jews have a tendency to test the waters, so to speak, by questioning other Jews about their particular practices. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/35 "2008-09-05T08:56:53Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > \ it has been my experience that converts are generally much more into the religion than people who were born into it. I also think that Judaism, in particular the orthodoxy has an inherent bias against those who converted, and as someone who is African American it will almost always be assumed that you are a convert. Judaism also has a tendency to distance itself from non Jews which hits you with a double whammy since almost no one is going to assume you are Jewish right off the bat. So you get hit with the goyem stick and it get’s followed up with the convert stick. Not a fun place to be. I feel for you. > > I have a vivid memory of being told that I wasn’t Jewish by a classmate and his younger brother when I was 12. They told me this because I told them that my mother was a convert. They grilled me about her conversion process and concluded that she hadn’t really converted and that therefore I wasn’t Jewish. The fact that we were all studying for our Bar Mitzvah together didn’t really matter, my grandfather being a concentration camp survivor didn’t matter, the fact that I was raised Jewish with a mother who was far more religious than my father (who was born Jewish) didn’t matter, I just wasn’t one of them anymore. > > They were kids. and kids are dicks and don’t really understand how these things work, but I think the fact that at that point in time (and 12 is a big year for Jewish kids) they were so willing to dismiss me…like I said I do have some prejudices when it comes to this kind of stuff. (Heck, it’s probably a large part of the reason why my fist tattoo was a large star of david on my right shoulder blade. I liked the irony. :D) But I think for people raised in the religion this sort of though process is just how they are raised. I don’t think she means anything by it, and I don’t think you should try to prove yourself to her. But if you brought it up to her I don’t think she would ever understand what she is doing. She probably doesn’t realize it herself. > > Sorry, that got rambley… > > So to answer your questions: > > I probably, personally would just ignore it. The lady means well, she is just an idiot. That happens. > > I don’t ask people if they are converts as I don’t really care. But I find that many converts like talking about the fact that they converted and are more often than not proud of it. > > I typically view converts as people who know more about my religion than I do these days since you have to just through a lot of hoops to convert. Most converts, as I said, are very into Judaism it in a way I probably will never be. In fact, by your post I would guess that you are a convert even if you didn’t mention the color of your skin. Just because of your level of enthusiasm. Either that or I would guess you are very young, like teenager young. > > Ok, I think that covers it. Sorry if I went off on a tangent or two. Yeah, I’ve also heard it said that converts tend to be more gung-ho than non-converts. And not that that means, of course, that they’re Orthodox, because some of the people that I know who manifest a stronger attachment to Judaism–both born and converts–are either Reform or Reconstructionist. (Then again, I’m a Reconstructionist Jew, so it would make sense that most of those that I speak of would also be Reconstructionist.) And I certainly see your point about the traditional insularity of Judaism because Judaism has, for the most part, always been that way. The thing is, though, that there have always been Jews of color. One of my black Jewish friends went to Ghana a couple of years ago and spent some time with the Jews there (I can’t recall at the moment the name of their tribe). Of course, because they’ve been separated for so long from other Jews, their practice is a bit different than what we in our part of the west are used to, but they are definitely Jewish practices. It was so cute to see in the film these African Jewish boys saying “El Melech Ne-eman” (“God, trusthworthy king”). Sorry, I digress. Anyway, while I certainly can’t blame American Jews for not knowing this kind of stuff (if they weren’t taught, they weren’t taught), it should be clear to anyone who’s been paying attention that the face of American Jewry has been changing for awhile now, so something needs to be done with this notion of “looks like a Jew, so must be a Jew; looks like a goy, so must be a goy”. That wasn’t directed at you, 'cause you’ve obviously seen your share of shit, and you clearly have some understanding of where I’m coming from. I’m so sorry for the way those pishers treated you. Okay, okay, you’re right–they were kids, and kids can be dicks, but still, I know that had to hurt you deeply, especially given your family’s history. And, dude, don’t worry 'bout the tat: These days, at least in some of the more liberal iterations of Judaism, you’d stand a pretty good chance of being buried in a Jewish cemetary if that’s what you wanted. As for my professor: I don’t think she consciously meant anything hurtful by her reaction–like I said, she seems like a nice old lady–but still, it did sting. I look at it as a teaching moment, and if I can help someone to not make another Jew of color feel the way that I felt that day, then I have a responsibility to do that. Do I think she’ll get it? Hmm, I’m hopeful that she will, but like you said, people are raised the way they’re raised, so even if she hears me in that moment, who knows if what I say to her will ultimately keep? While I won’t yet (if ever) on these boards confirm or deny my birth/convert status, I can confirm this much: I am soooooo totally not teenager young–I’ll be 39 come February. I do wish most days, however, that I had the energy of a teenager, 'cause many are the moments when I feel every single day of my 38-and-a-half years. 😃 Thank you so much, sir, for your very kind words, and for sharing your story with me. Zei gezunt (be well). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/36 "2008-09-05T09:21:17Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I don’t ask people if they are converts. There is a rule in Judaism saying you shouldn’t do that. If they volunteer the information, I tell them that I am one too, but I never ask. It’s none of my business how they became Jewish, unless they want to tell me. I tell people that I am a convert if it seems relevant to the discussion at hand. > > I’m sorry about what happened to you. There is a rule in the Talmud that says it is forbidden to remind a convert of their previous status or their ancestors’ religious status \ You are, of course, absolutely correct. I remember that, many years ago, an acquaintance of mine was taking a Hebrew class that was composed of both born Jews and Jews-by-choice (“JBC”), and when the subject of JBC’s came up, the teacher was QUITE emphatic that no Jew is to ever, EVER ask another Jew if he or she is a JBC. IIRC, her words were along the lines of, “Just. Don’t. Do. It!” Now, of course, it’s okay to speak about a JBC being a JBC, but only if the JBC brings it up. And **NAF1138** is right: there are indeed JBC’s who are all too happy to “publicly” identify as such. There are such JBC’s at my shul. Then, on the other hand, there are JBC’s who, for any number of legitimate reasons, simply don’t wish to be identified as such, which also means that if one knows that someone else is a JBC, one is _not even supposed to share that knowledge with other people_ unless the JBC gives permission. [QUOTE=Anne Neville] I would have a talk with your professor about how you feel singled out and have been made to feel like you don’t belong in this class by some of the things she has said and done. Cite specific examples of things she’s said or done. If she’s a decent person, she’ll at least try to do better. [/QUOTE] Oh, I will. I know that I’ll feel a some degree of discomfort while doing it (I don’t know if you can tell by my posting history–well, such as it is–but I hate conflict, and I engage in it only if I feel that it’s necessary), but it has to be done. [QUOTE=Anne Neville] Part of it is that Orthodox Judaism doesn’t recognize people who converted with a non-Orthodox rabbi (which is almost all converts to Judaism in the US) as Jewish, unless they go through a conversion with an Orthodox rabbi. I’ve even heard that not all Orthodox rabbis recognize conversions done by all other Orthodox rabbis. [/QUOTE] Yeah, this is one of the thorns in my side both about Orthodox Judaism in general, and the fact that the Orthodoxy have control over religious affairs in Israel. I mean, hell, I’ve heard of talk in Orthodox circles about how non-Orthodox Jews, but \*especially \*Reform and Reconstructionist Jews, aren’t really Jews. It’s like, WTF?! If my understanding is correct, however, it’s been getting better in recent years, but only very incrementally. It would be nice to one day see an Israel (in terms of religious and citizenship affairs) for ALL Jews. The sooner, the better. Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. Oh, and Shabbat Shalom! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/37 "2008-09-05T09:31:30Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Uh, what? I am Jewish, with a Polish last name of the type that tends to be Jewish and other Jews ask me these questions all the time. I would consider it a topic of reasonably polite conversation between friendly Jewish people with different levels of observance. See also, “have you been to Israel?” and “Are you active in Hillel?” > > Edited to add: except people never ask me if I’m convert. That IS a rude question. Well, if by “friendly,” you mean “people who are at least acquainted with each other,” then yeah, I get your point. Hell, I’ve had similar conversations with people in my shul or with other Jews whom I’ve known for awhile. That’s not what I’m talking about, though. I’m talking about \*complete strangers \*asking questions that, to my mind, they have no goddamn business asking. Especially when the questions are preceded by something like, “Ohhh, so you’re _Jewish_?” or, “Oh, I thought you were Muslim.” Yeah, good times. ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/38 "2008-09-05T09:36:21Z")
> [@missred](#): > > And if you are a convert, does that make you any less Jewish than the biblical Ruth was? 🙂 Hah! Very well-played. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Li\_l\_Pluck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Li\_l\_Pluck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Li_l_Pluck)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/39 "2008-09-05T10:52:17Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Your experience is a darn shame, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least. I was born and raised a conservative Jew, and I’ve often seen similar sorts of “wow, look at the convert!” behavior. Just recently, I got to hear from a family member all about the black guy that was a bar mitzvah guest at the local synagogue, and how he “wore a yarmulke and a tallis, and sang along with the prayers and everything!” :rolleyes: > > And the sad thing is that I probably wouldn’t have thought anything wrong with that statement when I was growing up. I would have thought it just an observation. But now that I’m married to a non-Jew, who is “visibly non-Jewish,” I’ve gotten a bit sensitive about things. I’m sick of questions like, “will your wife convert?” And I worry about how my children will have to deal with similar comments and situations like yours. We’ve had our first converted as officially as possible to avoid as much as possible any future “you’re not really Jewish” comments, and plan to do the same with all the others, but I know that they will still have to deal with this kind of prejudice regardless. > > So what I’m getting at is that I’ve seen both sides of this, and **NAF** has the gist of it. This sort of behavior is wrong and hurtful, but the people who exhibit it have no idea what they are doing. Judaism has been so insular for so long that the ethnically unusual Jew is a curiosity or an anecdote, when they should simply be another Jew. I don’t know of any real solution other than patience and a thick skin, and the hope that through constant exposure, such people will eventually understand that the “standard” Jew isn’t the only kind. Oh, I hear ya. Oftentimes, when people do that whole “wow, you’re REALLY a Jew?!” thing as if I’m trying to convince them that the sun is really a ball of butter, I have to stifle the urge to offer “to read you some fucking Hebrew” which, depending on a number of factors, I can probably do better than they can. I’m not at all surprised that people ask if your wife will convert because God forbid that you should disgrace the Jewish people, along with the memory of all those who came before you, alav ha-shalom, and marry a shiksa. :rolleyes: Oh, and “what about the children!!!” :eek: Silly shit, man, I tell ya. I do hope that your family, at least, isn’t sitting shiva for you. As for the children: I think that if you surround them with other Jews who have it together enough to just not give a damn about how they’re Jewish–or, hell, perhaps who don’t even care \*whether \*they’re Jewish or not–they’ll be able to deal with the idiots without losing confidence in who they are. Hey, I do it, and they’ll be able to do it, too. I don’t know if you attend shul or not, but we Reconstructionist Jews accept patrilineal as well as matrilineal descent. As a movement, we’re also Jew-by-choice/Jew of color/LGBTQ/mixed family (both religiously and racially)/believer/agnostic/atheist-friendly. I’m black, gay, and atheist, and I haven’t been kicked out of my shul of 14 years, and I’m guessing that y’all can’t possibly be more mixed up than I am. 😃 Good luck, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841/40 "2008-09-05T10:55:42Z")
> [@Li\_l\_Pluck](#): > > …I’ve heard of talk in Orthodox circles about how non-Orthodox Jews, but \*especially \*Reform and Reconstructionist Jews, aren’t really Jews. It’s like, WTF?! If my understanding is correct, however, it’s been getting better in recent years, but only very incrementally. It would be nice to one day see an Israel (in terms of religious and citizenship affairs) for ALL Jews. The sooner, the better. Sefarad for the win! 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-dopers-whats-the-deal-how-would-you-handle-this/461841.md?page=3)