# Jewish Opposition to Anti-Abortion Laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981 "2024-06-17T12:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/1 "2024-06-17T12:58:00Z")
Listening to local NPR this morning, I learned that there are some rabbis here in Idaho who are opposed to the local abortion laws based on freedom of religion. Their stance, as I understood it, is that not only does Judaism not prohibit abortion, but it demands it if the mother’s health or life is at risk. Thus they claim that the laws prohibiting abortion in Idaho are a governmental imposition of a narrow view of christianity and thus a violation of their religious beliefs and practices. Is this a real thing? I know there are jewish folks here and I’m hoping for further input and clarification ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/2 "2024-06-17T13:10:44Z")
Yes, it’s a real thing. In Judaism, the life of the mother is paramount: > **[Judaism and abortion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_abortion)** > > In Judaism, views on abortion draw primarily upon the legal and ethical teachings of the Hebrew Bible, the Talmud, the case-by-case decisions of responsa, and other rabbinic literature. While all major Jewish religious movements allow or encourage abortion in order to save the life of a pregnant woman, authorities differ on when and whether it is permitted in other cases. > There is no direct reference in the Hebrew Bible to an intentional termination of pregnancy. > Numbers 5:11–31 refers to the O... _The National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW) has been a progressive supporter of abortion access and reproductive freedom. Since its founding, NCJW has been a leader in the reproductive health and rights movement so that every person can make “moral and faith-informed decisions about their body, health, and family.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/3 "2024-06-17T13:15:12Z")
Lawsuits have already begun. > **[Jewish congregations mount legal challenges to state abortion bans •...](https://tennesseelookout.com/2022/08/26/jewish-congregations-mount-legal-challenges-to-state-abortion-bans/)** > > With the fall of Roe v. Wade in late June, some members of the Jewish faith find their beliefs in conflict with state laws that ban abortion. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/4 "2024-06-17T13:40:44Z")
Here’s a piece from Full Frontal with Samantha Bee where she sits down with Catholic, Muslim and Jewish leaders to discuss it. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8e26YL3-TbE/maxresdefault.jpg "But God Didn’t Say That: Religious Community Members Talk God and Abortion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e26YL3-TbE) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/5 "2024-06-17T13:59:05Z")
I would love for an abortion-related separation of church and state lawsuit to wend its way up to the Supreme Court! The current court is increasing the deference to religion every chance it gets, so it would be great to see the pretzels they would have to bend themselves into on this subject. I have no doubt they would come down on the anti-abortion side, of course. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/6 "2024-06-17T14:44:52Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The current court is increasing the deference to religion every chance it gets, so it would be great to see the pretzels they would have to bend themselves into on this subject. Sorta. I would tweak your comment to read: > The current court is increasing the deference to ~~religion~~ Fundamentalist Christianity and only Fundamentalist Christianity every chance it gets, so it would be ~~great to see the pretzels they would have to bend themselves into on this subject.~~ completely expected that they would give no thought whatsoever to any other religious tradition or to non-religious POVs. > > IOW the originalist / textualist POV amounts to: "The Founding Fathers believed ‘religion’ meant ‘Fundamentalist Christianty’, I Justice [whoever] believe it, and that settles it. For everyone else in the country. Period. IMO _that’s_ what’s gonna happen. No pretzels needed or even mentioned. At least not by the majority = RW opinion. The dissent(s) if any will raise those arguments and be laughed off the stage and forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/7 "2024-06-17T15:00:03Z")
@LSLGuy is entirely correct. Whenever a lawmaker uses the word Judeo-Christian, they invariably mean Christian. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/8 "2024-06-17T15:01:39Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Whenever a lawmaker uses the word Judeo-Christian, they invariably mean Christian. And, conservative/fundamentalist Christian, at that. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/9 "2024-06-17T15:03:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > And, conservative/fundamentalist Christian, at that. Sometimes they include Catholics. But never Mormons! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/10 "2024-06-17T15:23:53Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IOW the originalist / textualist POV amounts to: "The Founding Fathers believed ‘religion’ meant ‘Fundamentalist Christianty’, I Justice [whoever] believe it, and that settles it. For everyone else in the country. Period. Well, they probably wouldn’t say that part out loud. Most likely, they’d just say that the state had secular grounds for banning abortion, and therefore freedom of religion is completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/11 "2024-06-17T16:08:53Z")
I started a discussion on this almost exactly two years ago! > [@Religious Challenge to an Anti-Abortion Law](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/religious-challenge-to-an-anti-abortion-law/966261): > > I’m putting this here, although arguably it could be in Great Debates, because the focus is on Legislation, and while it is news, I don’t think it belongs in MPSIMS. First, the article that caught my attention: The lawsuit filed by the Congregation L’Dor Va-Dor of Boynton Beach contends the law that takes effect July 1 violates Jewish teachings, which state abortion “is required if necessary to protect the health, mental or physical well-being of the woman” and for other reasons. Is the s… Many similar arguments as we’re seeing, how the “judeo” in Judeo-Christian arguments are almost always more of a cultural appropriation or unwilling assimilation attempt. One thing I brought up there, that hasn’t been mentioned here yet was a niggle in the Indiana lawsuit: [https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-blocks-indiana-abortion-ban-religious-freedom-grounds-2022-12-03/](https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-blocks-indiana-abortion-ban-religious-freedom-grounds-2022-12-03/) Specifically, that the state had enacted in 2015 Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act, where they specified business and government couldn’t put a burden on the the person’s religious belief unless against compelling governmental interest. IE, it was a law passed so that various religiously affiliated businesses (Hobby Lobby and ilk) shouldn’t be forced to comply with all and sundry protections against their feelings. Now, yes, fully as mentioned in both threads, this is the sort of thing where what they MEAN is that of course Christians of certain carefully vetted and approved sects should have freedom and screw the others, or that of course _they_ [read Christian conservative white men in general] are the ones that can dictate what morals are worthy of being enforced by “compelling governmental interest” - but no one at this point is going to be surprised by the hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/12 "2024-06-17T17:15:08Z")
I feel like I remember a Florida court rejecting one of these lawsuits by basically saying, “yes well, this clearly isn’t central to Jewish belief so it doesn’t count” but I can’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/13 "2024-06-17T17:33:17Z")
Please let me know if you find it, although being Florida, I wouldn’t be surprised. It would be an interesting precedent since so much of our current “Christian” claims to various accommodation (vaccines, mask-weaking, arguably gender issues) would almost all be similarly defined as “isn’t central” to a non-biased review. Of course, I don’t think anyone in this thread thinks for a moment that the Florida courts, or the current SCOTUS could be considered non-biased on such issues. Since quoting the New Testament has become a valid basis for making civil legislation decisions in recent years… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/14 "2024-06-17T17:35:42Z")
This is very much my (Jewish) mother-in-law’s stated opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/15 "2024-06-17T17:45:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Most likely, they’d just say that the state had secular grounds for banning abortion, and therefore freedom of religion is completely irrelevant. One court said almost exactly that just the other day: > **[Missouri abortion ban wasn't about lawmakers imposing religious beliefs,...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-rejects-religious-leaders-challenge-missouri-abortion-ban-111157417)** > > A Missouri judge has rejected the argument that lawmakers intended to “impose their religious beliefs on everyone” in the state when they passed a restrictive abortion ban ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/16 "2024-06-17T18:12:56Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > started a discussion on this almost exactly two years ago! I had forgotten about your thread ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/17 "2024-06-17T18:23:07Z")
It wouldn’t disturb those red potato necks the slightest if they cause Jews to leave the state. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/18 "2024-06-17T18:28:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It wouldn’t disturb those red potato necks the slightest if they cause Jews to leave the state I could see them making a ruling that sure, the Jews can have all the abortions they want. Hell, make it mandatory! ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/19 "2024-06-17T19:23:24Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > I had forgotten about your thread Since it was last active 18 months ago and only drew 12 total posts, you have no reason to remember! I’ll just say the usual, great minds think alike, and so do ours. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/20 "2024-06-17T19:48:22Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > Sometimes they include Catholics. But never Mormons! I could see Mormons being included, given that institutional Mormonism is probably supportive of the “religious” principles that conservative/fundamentalist Christians want to build into the law - anti-abortion, zero tolerance or rights for the LGBTQ community, no need for anti-discrimination laws that try to give a fair shake to oppressed groups, etc. Some Mormons have been quite successful in the US political sphere - Mitt Romney being a visible example, but there may be more Mormons working behind the scenes than a lot of people realize. [Roger Porter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_B._Porter) is an example - he’s held many influential positions and taught/shaped the views of many people who have held positions of power. And Roger’s son held a significant role that I no longer recall in the Trump administration, but due to details I no longer recall, he had to resign in disgrace. I felt bad for Roger, who as far as I could tell (he was my professor years ago) is a decent human being. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981.md?page=2)