# Jewish Opposition to Anti-Abortion Laws? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981 "2024-06-17T12:58:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/21 "2024-06-18T01:11:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I feel like I remember a Florida court rejecting one of these lawsuits by basically saying, “yes well, this clearly isn’t central to Jewish belief so it doesn’t count” but I can’t find it. Perhaps you’re thinking of Josh Blackman’s article arguing that Reform Judaism’s anti-abortion doctrine doesn’t count as a “sincerely held belief”? > **[This law professor argued that Reform Jews aren't devout enough to merit...](https://forward.com/culture/507161/reform-jews-abortion-freedom-of-religion/?amp=1)** > > Does a Florida synagogue protesting that abortion bans violate their religious freedom have strict enough beliefs to need protection? (To his credit, Blackman later recanted his argument.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/22 "2024-06-18T01:18:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > The current court is increasing the deference to religion every chance it gets, so it would be great to see the pretzels they would have to bend themselves into on this subject. > > I have no doubt they would come down on the anti-abortion side, of course. But they didnt- [https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-abortion-pill-decision-06-13-24/index.html#:~:text=CNN’s%20Annette%20Choi-,The%20Supreme%20Court%20unanimously%20rejected%20a%20lawsuit%20challenging%20the%20Food,an%20in-person%20doctor’s%20visit](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-abortion-pill-decision-06-13-24/index.html#:~:text=CNN's%20Annette%20Choi-,The%20Supreme%20Court%20unanimously%20rejected%20a%20lawsuit%20challenging%20the%20Food,an%20in%2Dperson%20doctor's%20visit). _The Supreme Court [unanimously rejected a lawsuit](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/supreme-court-abortion-pill-decision-06-13-24/index.html) challenging the Food and Drug Administration’s approach to regulating the abortion pill mifepristone with a ruling that will continue to allow the pills to be mailed to patients without an in-person doctor’s visit._ ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/23 "2024-06-18T01:23:47Z")
IIRC that’s because the convoluted arguments for _standing_ were so poor that even they could not ignore them, rather than any merits of the case or their desires for more restrictions (from the conservative and reactionary members). So they dumped the issue lest the courts be flooded from now until the end of time by the change in precedent. I will continue to hold my breathe once other challenges hit the SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/24 "2024-06-18T01:58:19Z")
Ah, that may very well be what I’m conflating. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/25 "2024-06-18T02:28:12Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > And Roger’s son held a significant role that I no longer recall in the Trump administration, but due to details I no longer recall, he had to resign in disgrace. Maybe because he played a role in the Trump administration? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/26 "2024-06-18T02:31:37Z")
_Also_ they left the doors wide open for: someone else with standing to bring a case; Congress to act; or a future Trump executive branch to direct action. All of which would be allowable. This was not a pro choice win. It just was not a loss at this time. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/27 "2024-06-18T02:42:57Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > Is this a real thing? Yes. Under Jewish law, the fetus isn’t actually a person until it draws a breath. Breath and soul are the same word in Hebrew, and God ensouled Adam by breathing into him: > [@Genesis 2:7](#): > > the LORD God formed man from the dust of the earth. He blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being. And Judaism holds “saving a human life” as paramount. You can break almost all the other commandments to save a life. So while Judaism generally frowns on abortion for a variety of reasons, if the woman is endangered by the pregnancy, Jewish law demands that she be protected from the pregnancy, by abortion if that’s what’s necessary. > **[Abortion: Halakhic Perspectives | Jewish Women's Archive](https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/abortion)** > > While halakhic discussions about abortion largely excluded the arguments and perspectives of women, in general poskim (decisors) determined that a woman’s life takes priority over the life of the fetus. Halakhic perspectives have explored the point... > Rabbinic sources relate to difficulty in birthing even a full-term infant and the right or obligation to dismember the fetus for the mother’s safety. In other discussions, the fetus does not have the status of human (_nefesh_ ) until birth. The fetus in a difficult birth is considered a pursuer (_rodef_ ), who can or must be dismembered to save the mother’s life. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/28 "2024-06-18T03:01:31Z")
Agreed - that’s why I was pointing out to @DrDeth that it wasn’t in any way the SCOTUS reactionaries supporting abortion access, just that they shut down the case for procedural issues (which, equally IMHO, shows just how badly the 5th Circuit wanted it to happen to ignore all of this) - not that there was any any hope that the RWNJ portion of our current SCOTUS would stop in their twisted interpretations and callous disregard for precedent. Thus my stated worries for -all- the future cases that are bound to be slightly less tortuous for the SCOTUS to weigh in on. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/29 "2024-06-18T03:20:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe because he played a role in the Trump administration? It would be nice if all members of any Trump administration resigned in disgrace just because they were members of a Trump administration, but the world doesn’t work that way. I looked up what actually happened. [Rob Porter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Porter) resigned due to domestic violence allegations while he was the White House Staff Secretary for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/30 "2024-06-18T13:45:13Z")
So what I conclude from this is that, while saving the mother’s life is not a central tenet of Judiasm, refusing to dress a wedding cake to celebrate a gay wedding **is** a central tenet of Christianity. Is this stated in the bible? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/31 "2024-06-18T13:49:55Z")
Oh, definitely. There’s a whole section on baked goods, recipes, restrictions on who can make them, who you can make them for, etc. It’s all in the book of Duncan Hines, chapters 5-12. Your post is spot on, of course. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/32 "2024-06-18T13:59:20Z")
I’ve had the following conversation with my Conservative Catholic FiL a number of times, and I have to say I love it every time. Well, Mormons consider themselves Christians. _They absolutely are not! A group gets to decide who its members are!_ OK, well, who decides for Christians? _The Christians!_ Which ones? You know a significant number of Evangelicals think the Catholic church isn’t really a Christian church? _That’s silly. Of course it is._ Usually at this point he’s too mad to continue the conversation. He really doesn’t see why I find his argument utterly lacking in logic or reason. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/33 "2024-06-18T15:14:17Z")
Remember: He doesn’t belong to _a_ church. He belongs to _The_ Church. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/34 "2024-06-18T16:55:42Z")
I would like to call your attention to George Washington’s to the Newport, RI synagogue: > **[Founders Online: From George Washington to the Hebrew Congregation in...](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-06-02-0135)** > > From George Washington to the Hebrew Congregation in Newport, Rhode Island, 18 August 1790 Here is one paragraph, but the entire letter is in this spirit: “The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.” 6/9 of SCOTUS would disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/35 "2024-06-18T16:58:46Z")
That was the Enlightenment. This is now. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/36 "2024-06-18T17:35:40Z")
Heck, Thomas Jefferson didn’t even limit it to “Judeo-” Christian. > [@](#): > > It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my back, if my neighbor should believe in no god, or twenty. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/37 "2024-06-18T17:38:56Z")
Right. And I’m sure that’s what he’s thinking. But while most of the family is VERY religious (my wife somehow escaped this) about one generation back half of them split and went evangelical. All were Catholic before this. So I suspect that he has forced himself to accept the Evangelicals since they are his siblings. I guess the fun experiment would be to get some of them to go Mormon and see how he reacts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/38 "2024-06-18T19:14:19Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Agreed - that’s why I was pointing out to @DrDeth that it wasn’t in any way the SCOTUS reactionaries supporting abortion access, just that they shut down the case for procedural issues (which, equally IMHO, shows just how badly the 5th Circuit wanted it to happen to ignore all of this) - not that there was any any hope that the RWNJ portion of our current SCOTUS would stop in their twisted interpretations and callous disregard for precedent. They didnt have to reject it. But they did. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/39 "2024-06-18T19:35:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They didnt have to reject it. But they did. They really did. That case has the potential to throw our entire drug approval prices in disarray, and make healthcare even more expensive and random than it is now. It had implications way beyond abortion, and would have been an incredibly disruptive and damaging ruling. The only thing that’s shocking is that the case got as far as it did. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981/40 "2024-06-18T19:39:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They really did. Yep. see you got Justices like Gorsuch and Roberts who are true “letter of the law” conservatives. SCOTUS also shrugged away all of trumps election challenges… The Court is conservative no doubt, but it is not controls my MAGA types. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-opposition-to-anti-abortion-laws/1002981.md?page=3)