# Jewish - Race or Religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183 "2003-01-27T06:09:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kittyHASclaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kittyHASclaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittyHASclaws)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/1 "2003-01-27T06:09:44Z")
Okay, first off this is NOT a bashing thread, not racist, and I don’t want to start a flame war. This is just a simple question. We are not racist whatsoever. My drunken boyfriend has started an argument and the 5 of us cannot seem to come to an agreement. He claims that being “Jewish” is a race AND a religion. Our argument is that it is NOT a race. It’s a religion. A “race” is caucasion, African, Asian, ect… He claims that anyone on the face of the earth can be Jewish if they chose and that someone can be jewish (religion) and not be Jewish (race) because the ‘Jewish’ people have distinct characteristics that seperate them from other races. And anyone else who is not born into jewish linage can convert to Judism but they are not in fact Jewish. I ask you… is Jewish a completely seperate race of people? ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/2 "2003-01-27T06:19:24Z")
I would say it’s a religion not a race, for the reasons you stated. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/3 "2003-01-27T06:31:02Z")
It is not a race, but being Jewish can be ethnic, say like being an Italian, Greek or Swede. One does not have to be a believer in the Jewish religion to be a Jew. If you convert then you become a Jew, as in the case of Sammy Davis Jr. It can become confusing, thus the fact that your argument has been inacted many times, in many places. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/4 "2003-01-27T06:32:30Z")
I’ve already asked this and received mixed answers. I’ll tell you this (and this is why I asked it in the first place): in some places (including the U.S.) “Jew” and/or “Jewish” is typed in the RACE section on birth and death certificates. I noticed this when I saw a copy of some death certificates of some Jewish people. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/5 "2003-01-27T06:37:39Z")
Over, and over, and over. This has been brought up so many times, I find it hard that you haven’t seen it here already. Search for “Jewish” and “race.” The “search” button is at the top right corner of this page. Yes, there – no, next to that – yeah. Judaism is a religion; everyone who believes in it, including those who convert to it, is Jewish. The Jews are a people; all who are of Jewish parentage are Jewish, no matter what they believe. They have a common ancestry going back thousands of years. It’s wrong to call Jews a race, but I’d say your drunken boyfriend is more right than wrong. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/6 "2003-01-27T06:44:02Z")
According to [http://www.torahbytes.org/sechel/contradiction.htm](http://www.torahbytes.org/sechel/contradiction.htm) the term Jewish refers to both race and religion. While I don’t quite agree with the definition of race in this situation (ethnicity is more appropriate) The term Jewish, at least in my opinion, definitely refers to both a religion AND a population of people religious or not…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kittyHASclaws](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/13edae/32.png) [@kittyHASclaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittyHASclaws)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/7 "2003-01-27T06:57:21Z")
Thanks for your input. I guess I should have searched for other treads before I posted. Sorry about that. Argument settled… we were all a “little bit right” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/8 "2003-01-27T07:04:29Z")
When refering to the Jewish “race,” one must remember that the word _race_ in that context is actually older than the Linnaean use of the word–and, in fact, Linnaeus coined his word based on the older meaning. Long before race was used to indicate (an erroneous) classification of humans at a level below species, the word was used to indicate any group that had a real or legendary founder. The Jews were the race of Abraham. the Irish were the Milesian Race. The Romans were the Race of Romulus. it was, in fact, this attributed aspect of _race_ to indicate “common descent” that led Linnaeus to borrow that word and reuse it with a new meaning when setting up his arbitrary four races. Thus, you can find people refering to the “Jewish race,” but they are not talking about the divisions that people find in older biology books that describe the “five races” or the “three races” or the “sixty races.” Rabbi Hayim Halevy Donin, in his work, To Be A Jew, (1972), said: > [@](#): > > In the very emphasis upon the particular, this singular family reflected the noblest form of universalism. The universalism that permeates the faith of Israel is reflected not only in its theological formulations and in its visions of the future, but in the very composition of its people. This seemingly “exclusive” people includes those whose skins range from the lightest to the darkest in colors, and within it a broad range of cultural diversity is represented. Yet despite the diversity that exists among them and the multitude of languages they speak, Jews regard themselves as related, as true brethren stemming from a common Semitic family. Although it is a religion which unites them and it is only on the basis of religion that newcomers are admitted into fellowship, this feeling of kinship is very strong–and the mystery deepens when we realize that even Jews who rebel against the faith and discard its religious beliefs and practices are still regarded as Jews, and generally themselves still feel the bonds of kinship. > This sense of kinship felt by the Jewish people may be more of a “mystical” experience than a rationally definable one. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why Jews have never quite been able to fit into the convenient categories used by historians or sociologists to defines nations, races, religions, and other social groupings. Except for the fact that Jews obviously do not constitute a race (for race is a biological designation), the Jews are _not just_ a religious faith, even though they are that; and they are _not just_ a nation, even though they are that too, according to definitions of the word “nation.” The problem is usually resolved by using the term “people” instead of either “faith” or “nation.” ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-race-or-religion/151183/9 "2003-01-27T07:06:50Z")
The question has been answered in a Staff Report: [Can you be an atheist and still be Jewish?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mjewish.html) Threads on this subject tend to degenerate into debates, so I’ll close this thread. Further discussion would be more appropriate in GD if you want to debate the question, or CSR if you want to comment on the above report. bibliophage moderator GQ