# Jewish Rye Bread, what's special about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [July 12, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798 "2022-07-12T01:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/1 "2022-07-12T01:44:12Z")
At work today, someone asked where the jewish rye bread was. I’m familiar with dark rye bread, and light rye bread, jewish rye bread was a new thing for me. How is it different than just plain rye bread? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/2 "2022-07-12T01:55:47Z")
It’s hard to describe, but definitely falls somewhere between soft rye breads like Pepperidge Farm and hard German-style breads, firmer than the former and softer than the latter. It’s like a wholly different species in the same genus. One [bakery](https://www.zingermans.com/Product/jewish-rye-bread/B-RYE) says this: > Traditional Jewish Rye Bread is an endangered species these days. We’re one of the last folks baking the real deal in America. This is rye like my grandparents ate in Eastern Europe, made with plenty of freshly milled rye flour (believe it or not, most “rye bread” sold in America contains very little rye flour), a natural sour rye starter (not the usual canned shortcuts) and lots of time to let the dough develop. The wheat flour we use is organic, too. It’s the sour rye starter that makes some of the difference, I think, though I’m no baker. Pepperidge farm-type breads don’t use it. Our go-to bakery for real Jewish rye was just bought out after the old owners retired and apparently they’ve needed time to get a kosher certification for their sour starter. They say it’s coming back in a week or two and their whole fanbase can’t wait. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/3 "2022-07-12T02:05:45Z")
Ah, much thanks, so then actual jewish rye is really just that, kosher, jewish rye that is less cake like but not quite european in texture and firmness? What’s the sweetness level like? I’m finding most commercially available breads to be much to sweet for me these days. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/4 "2022-07-12T02:06:58Z")
So this is basically rye bread with the addition of caraway seeds? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/5 "2022-07-12T02:10:59Z")
Nevermind! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/6 "2022-07-12T02:58:06Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > What’s the sweetness level like? I find the difference to be mostly texture, but I find European ryes somewhat bitter. > [@DPRK](#): > > So this is basically rye bread with the addition of caraway seeds? Jewish rye traditionally used caraway seeds, but the choice of seeded or unseeded ryes was commonplace in bakeries 60 years ago and remains so today. I imagine there are some places where you can raise a good internet ruckus on the subject of whether “real” Jewish rye could ever **not** be seeded. It’s all personal taste as far as I’m concerned. But “rye bread” is not one thing, with or without seeds. It’s like asking whether a hot dog is just a skinny sausage. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/7 "2022-07-12T09:27:46Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > …How is it different than just plain rye bread? It is sliced. mmm ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/8 "2022-07-12T10:16:50Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > It is sliced. Just the tip. To me, a Jewish rye is sour, medium firm - enough to stand up to a pastrami sandwich, and can be mit kimmel (seeded) or without. I’m lucky enough to live in a city that has a sizeable Jewish community. I can get good Jewish rye easily. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/9 "2022-07-12T13:31:33Z")
> [@DorkVader](#): > > Ah, much thanks, so then actual jewish rye is really just that, kosher … There’s kosher, and then there’s certified kosher. Almost all bread will be inherently kosher (at least, outside of Passover), because nothing that could make something not-kosher is a normal ingredient in bread. But if you’re going to run a kosher business, then you’re going to need to be certified kosher, which means that a rabbi needs to inspect everything to make sure that everything follows the rules. I mean, you’re probably not using pork tallow in your bread, anyway, but the rabbi has to check to make sure. If you wanted to, you could also make kosher German rye or kosher dark rye or kosher white refined wheat bread, and get those certified by a rabbi, too. Those aren’t as common, but just because the culture happens to traditionally eat a different sort of bread. But there’s nothing wrong with adopting new traditions, as long as they follow the rules, and so some Indian or Chinese restaurants (especially ones that are vegetarian anyway) are certified kosher. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/10 "2022-07-12T14:30:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s kosher, and then there’s certified kosher. Almost all bread will be inherently kosher (at least, outside of Passover), because nothing that could make something not-kosher is a normal ingredient in bread. { ~~—~~ } We did this with pickles. Kosher in pickles means with garlic in the brine. Jewish in Jewish rye means a style of rye bread, typically seeded, closely associated with Jewish and Jewish-American cuisine particularly the deli. As Wikipedia says, > Jewish rye bread is a type of rye bread commonly made in Jewish communities. > … > In the United States wheat-rye bread, including light rye (sissel), American pumpernickel, and the combination of the two as marbled rye, is closely associated with Jewish cuisine and Jewish-American cuisine, particularly the delicatessen. The bulk of the flour is white wheat flour (often a less-refined form known as first clear), with a substantial portion of rye mixed in for color and flavor. The dough is often leavened, in whole or in part, with sourdough, but sometimes uses a small addition of citric acid or vinegar to achieve the lowered pH needed to neutralize the rye amylases. The so-called Jewish rye is further seasoned with whole caraway fruits and glazed with an egg wash, and is traditionally associated with salted meats such as corned beef and pastrami. > … > The Jewish-American variety has Eastern European Jewish antecedents, including Russian Jewish style brown bread, Polish Jewish style rye bread and Latvian Jewish style rye bread. > [Jewish rye bread - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_rye_bread) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/11 "2022-07-12T14:47:17Z")
Is it much different than Polish or Lithuanian rye, for those who have had both? It looks pretty much the same to me, but that would not be at all surprising, as a lot of Jewish cuisine is influenced by Eastern Europe and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/12 "2022-07-12T17:20:16Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > To me, a Jewish rye is sour, medium firm - enough to stand up to a pastrami sandwich, and can be mit kimmel (seeded) or without. Yes. And it’s a particular kind of sour flavor; goes well with kosher dills. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/13 "2022-07-12T17:51:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is it much different than Polish or Lithuanian rye, for those who have had both? It looks pretty much the same to me, but that would not be at all surprising, as a lot of Jewish cuisine is influenced by Eastern Europe and vice versa. They would have to be not only influenced but virtually all from the same pool of bread styles used around eastern Europe. The names we use arose when those styles migrated to new places where they were no longer considered generic ‘bread’. Then the success of one baker or another and market forces made the Jewish Rye one particular variation and Polish Rye another variation of the same type of bread. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/14 "2022-07-12T22:39:22Z")
One time I asked the cashier if she was allowed to sell me the Jewish rye bread because I was Methodist. She replied, “Just be quiet and I won’t tell anybody.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/15 "2022-07-13T02:35:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Almost all bread will be inherently kosher (at least, outside of Passover), because nothing that could make something not-kosher is a normal ingredient in bread. While this is technically true, it’s highly unlikely you’ll ever see kosher bread made with milk or butter. If it were, you’d not be able to eat it with meat and still keep kosher. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/16 "2022-07-13T11:09:04Z")
This is apparently why Bimbo Bakeries, the largest bakery company in the USA, is no longer kosher (except for a few specific brands)—they wanted the option to produce it on factory lines which might include dairy products: > **[A lot of the bread in the US will no longer be kosher - Jewish Telegraphic...](https://www.jta.org/2018/12/11/food/baking-giant-drops-kosher-certification-for-almost-all-of-its-bread)** > > Many of the companies owned by Bimbo Bakeries, such as Sara Lee and Freihofer's, are losing their kosher certifications. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/17 "2022-07-13T13:33:03Z")
Couldn’t they still get it certified as “kosher containing milk”? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/18 "2022-07-13T13:35:12Z")
Yes, but it then couldn’t be used with any meat products. Parave (neither milk nor meat) bread can be used for a Turkey sandwich or with butter and jam. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/19 "2022-07-13T17:44:42Z")
Right, pretty much all the things we think of as “Jewish” today comes from the amalgamation of Eastern European Jews forced together into the Lower East Side of New York City. They mixed local habits into a new culture that took the many similarities and smoothed them out to serve all of the larger market. New York already had a German Jewish community that was more upper class and resented the newcomers, so little of the resulting “Yiddish” culture had German elements. It was only later, with the rise of anti-semitism that the German Jews were lumped together with the Eastern European Jews, but by that time the culture was fixed. There are really interesting parallels to the formation of black culture in America, which also resulted from the forced amalgamation of local distinct cultures into one larger “African” culture, making it difficult to go back and trace the heritage of any one facet of it. ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798/20 "2022-07-13T17:57:01Z")
What’s special about Jewish rye is that it’s yummy. I was raised in southern California, and there were several delis I could go to. I always got pastrami on rye, and the rye was always wonderfully chewy, with a crust that was a little leathery and a little crisp. I miss it. I moved to northern California 23 years ago and I haven’t seen a loaf of real Jewish rye in all that time. Occasionally, if I go to some fancy market in a neighborhood new to me, I’ll buy a loaf of rye in the hopes that it’ll match the rye of my memory. Nope - it’s always just plain old crumbly wheat bread with a few caraway seeds in it. Bleh. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-rye-bread-whats-special-about-it/967798.md?page=2)