# Jewish Saturday Lunch Invite - No Gift?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 9, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165 "2005-02-09T08:08:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Binky\_Rudich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Binky\_Rudich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binky_Rudich)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/1 "2005-02-09T08:08:20Z")
I’m a conservative jew who has been invited to a relitively orthodox household for Saturday Lunch. I got a tip from a friend that it would be considered an insult/inappropriate to present a gift (teehee, go pun yourself) on shabas? Something to do with the ‘work’ of carrying the parcel from my abode to theirs? If this is the case I suppose I’ll arrange to have something (tasty and kosher, any suggestions?) to delivered before friday night. So yeah, no gifts on shabbat? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/2 "2005-02-09T09:09:04Z")
That’s correct - not so much because of the carrying (a gift would be forbidden on Shabbat even within an Eruv, a structure in which carrying is allowed), but because it’s a monetary transaction. Those are forbidden on Shabbat, too. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/3 "2005-02-09T10:32:27Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > …within an Eruv…, a structure in which carrying is allowed… I’m always fascinated by this stuff. Regale me with the rationale, here. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/4 "2005-02-09T15:59:56Z")
In a nutshell: the prohibition of carrying on the Sabbath is only in a public domain, which has a halachic (Jewish religious law) definition of having something like 600,000 people passing through on a regular basis (I’m a bit vague on the precise details myself). Most public spaces today do not fit that definition, but rather, are in a category called (in Hebrew) “Carmelit” in which carrying is only prohibited by Rabbinic edict, not by Torah law. The Rabbis allowed for an exception in a Carmelit that if it would be circumscribed by wall-like structures, that would allow it the status of a private domain, in which carrying is entirely permitted. This circumscribing structure is referred to as an “Eruv.” Mind you, there is _no_ possibility of an Eruv or anything else allowing carrying on the Sabbath in a genuine halachic public domain, as described earlier. But most areas, public though they may seem to us, do not fit the legal technical definition of a public domain. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/5 "2005-02-09T16:35:24Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > In a nutshell: the prohibition of carrying on the Sabbath is only in a public domain, which has a halachic (Jewish religious law) definition of having something like 600,000 people passing through on a regular basis. I’m pretty sure it needs to be at least 16 amot (about 8 meters) wide and have at least 600,000 people (according to Rashi) passing through it every day. Wasn’t there some disagreement a few years ago about the eruv in Boro Park that involved this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Binky\_Rudich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Binky\_Rudich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binky_Rudich)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/6 "2005-02-09T17:13:44Z")
So should I be ok if the gift arrives on friday hours before the holiday begins? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/7 "2005-02-09T17:16:04Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > I’m pretty sure it needs to be at least 16 amot (about 8 meters) wide and have at least 600,000 people (according to Rashi) passing through it every day. And unroofed and open on both ends. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/8 "2005-02-09T17:17:37Z")
> [@Binky\_Rudich](#): > > So should I be ok if the gift arrives on friday hours before the holiday begins? Yes, that would be best. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Binky\_Rudich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Binky\_Rudich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binky_Rudich)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/9 "2005-02-09T17:40:55Z")
Toda Raba ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/10 "2005-02-09T19:49:52Z")
What would one do then, if a guest brought a gift in ignorance? I assume you’d have to refuse it? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/11 "2005-02-09T21:04:13Z")
Or at least put it aside until after the Sabbath and only take possession of it (and subsequently make use of it) then. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-saturday-lunch-invite-no-gift/289165/12 "2005-02-09T21:57:34Z")
Would this extend to food and drink? Food-related items like bowls or cutlery?