# Jewish services - why so much Hebrew? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162 "2005-04-13T19:12:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/21 "2005-04-14T17:10:11Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > WOAH! Everybody’s bowing now … I guess I better do that too. Sometimes affectionately known as “prayerobics”. Another really good source for understanding the order of the prayer service, along with a lot of historical/critical and traditional points of view, is the series _My People’s Prayer Book_, ed by Rabbi Lawrence A. Hoffman, published by Jewish Lights. It’s eight volumes, with each volume presenting a different part of the service. It’s laid out a little like a traditional Talmud page, with a little bit of the traditional Hebrew text in the middle, with a translation into English, and then surrounded by commentary by rabbis and scholars from all branches of Judaism. The “traditional” part of the commentary describes the _halachah_ (law) and custom of the saying that prayer–including the prayerobics, if any, associated with it. My favorite parts of these books are the reconstructions of the history of the codified prayers. Some really good stuff about the earliest manuscripts that exist of the service–found in some ancient buildings in Egypt, I think–that are well over 1000 years old and show that the text (and order) of the prayers has changed surprisingly little over the centuries. It adds to my experience of prayer to know that the words I am using are basically the same ones spoken by my ancestors for so many generations. Good luck, and have a good Pesach! -Rick ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/22 "2005-04-14T20:47:10Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I can’t speak for Reform congregations, but I would be _highly_ surprised if they did either of these in any language other than Hebrew. > > Zev Steinhardt When I went to a bar mitzvah of a relative in a Reform temple he read a Torah portion in English. I don’t remember if it was also read in Hebrew. I went to a liberal Conservative temple (men and women sat together) and almost everything (except the sermon) was in Hebrew. My haftorah portion was. We were not trusted with reading the Torah. One thing not mentioned - to me Hebrew just sounds better. A blessing in Hebrew sounds just more right than the same blessing translated into English. But I suppose that is just me. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/23 "2005-04-14T20:58:54Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When I went to a bar mitzvah of a relative in a Reform temple he read a Torah portion in English. I don’t remember if it was also read in Hebrew. That’s very odd. I’ve never heard of that being done before. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/24 "2005-04-14T21:12:16Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > That’s very odd. I’ve never heard of that being done before. When Reform started (Classical German Reform), they pretty much got rid of Hebrew altogether, along with a bunch of other stuff, like the Messiah, circumcision, Bar Mitzvahs, kashrut, Sabbath on Saturday, etc. Modern Reform has put back most of that, but I still wouldn’t be shocked to hear about some Reform congregations reading the Torah portion in English. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/25 "2005-04-14T22:46:27Z")
> [@](#): > > In Protestant churches, attendees are usually given a pamphlet at the door that includes a step-by-step instruction guide to the liturgy that day; start with this hymn on page 35 of the blue hymnal, say the Kyrie on page 12, stand, recite the prayer on page 13. They do that because the Protestant services are different each week. Jewish services are essentially the same every week (aside from minor differences for special days, special seasons, etc.) So, if you have some education, you don’t need a guide. Also, while Protestant services are the congregation praying together, Jewish services (certainly in the traditional mode) are individuals praying who happen to come together. {The old joke is that at an Orthodox service, if you come late, you start at the beginning of the prayers and go at your own pace until you get to the end. At a Conservative service, if you come late, you join the congregation wherever they are. And for a Reform service, you don’t come late.} So, yes, the language is often heavily in Hebrew and yes, the order of the service is pretty much fixed and changes only slightly. At the same time, Judaism is a religion of continual study and learning. And so, I say with all friendliness and sincerity and warmth: if you would like to feel more comfortable in a service: Go and learn. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/26 "2005-04-15T00:39:26Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > That’s very odd. I’ve never heard of that being done before. > > Zev Steinhardt When I had my bat mitzvah, I read the Torah portion in Hebrew, then I read the English translation. Perhaps that’s what he means. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-services-why-so-much-hebrew/299162/27 "2005-04-15T01:23:56Z")
Reform Jewish services very much have a fixed order of prayer. You don’t understand it yet–that’s OK. IMO (not to veer this into Great Debates), the reason Jewish services (even Reform) are largely in Hebrew is because Judaism wants you to feel (1) closer to your Lord and (2) able to understand what’s going on. That sounds contradictory, but it’s not. Think of it this way: there are two ways to market an herbal supplement. One way is to get up and start waxing majestic about all the great stuff the drug will do for you. The other way is to do the same thing, _and_ provide copies of the scientific studies which back up your claims. Many (most?) herbal supplements don’t have scientific backing, and don’t want you to know that. Judaism likes to think of itself as the drug that can show you all the studies. This isn’t directly analogous, of course, but I think you get the idea: we give you the English and the source material, so that (1) you’re more connected to the millions of Jews who pray in the same language around the world and (2) you can go check the translation with an unbiased source and see what you’re praying about, if you really want to. Not that there’s any reason you would do that. But the difference I see here is, to pick on Catholicism as an example, (1) Catholics aren’t connected to each other all over the world through a common language (how many Catholics do you know who know the prayers in Latin?) and (2) if the pastor (sorry if I’m using the wrong terminology) says that a particular passage means something, you just have to take his word for it. I attended mass once, and noticed that there was a huge difference in how the holy text was read: at the Reform temples that I’m used to (particularly in discussion groups outside of services–I highly recommend you start attending some of those kind of events, BTW), followers are encouraged to find their own meaning for each passage; while at mass, followers seem to be encouraged to swallow their pill, that is, take the pastor’s interpretation as the true word. That may be a peculiarity of the mass I attended, but most converted and non-believing Catholics I know seem to agree with me there. YMMV. BTW, goyim is plural. You’re a goy–you and your friend are goyim. And congratulations on joining the Jewish faith! May you one day return safely to Jerusalem. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > as I understand, Yiddish is widely used in Israel. Yes and no. I went to Israel this winter, and most Israelis speak Hebrew, as well as their native language if they’re first-generation, and whatever other language they happen to pick up (usually English because tourism from English-speaking countries runs so high, but Spanish and Russian are becoming common as well). The general population of Hebrew does not speak Yiddish–at least, not in daily conversation. However, there are Orthodox sects (mostly in Jerusalem) who have a set of beliefs which include the rejection of modern or “new” Hebrew as spoken on a daily basis in Eretz Yisrael. They feel, basically, that modernizing Hebrew is as good as raping it, and that they’d rather use Yiddish to conduct their affairs than to be associated with the serious grievance (to them) upon our Lord that is modern Hebrew. It’s misleading to say that Yiddish is widely used in Israel, because if you’re talking about the general population of Eretz Yisrael, it’s not. (Some probably speak or learn Yiddish to connect themselves to the victims of the Holocaust, as well, as the modern state of Israel rose out of WW2’s ashes.) I suppose you could say it’s roughly analogous to exclusively French-speaking Quebec, but with more religious significance. > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > in which he notes that Hebrew was a rare language in that it was devoid of profanity–forcing Israelis to use Arabic when they want to curse. I got the impression while I was there that the Israelis find a way around that. Either modern Hebrew has words that get the message across, Israelis are creative, or they use words adapted from Arabic. Israeli Jews actually use a fair bit of slang that’s adapted from Arabic. The only thing I remember is that “sababa”, an Arabic word, is used by Israeli Jews to mean (basically) “cool”, as in “that’s a cool watch”. But you’re right in that Yiddish has more than its fair share of ways to say you hate someone–if you think about it, they had a lot of good reasons to hate some people. > [@Alessan](#): > > the correct Hebrew term for “Armed Forces” is “Cochot Mizuyanim” Is it really? I went through the whole bag of documents about making aliyah and don’t recall reading those words. I do recall seeing one word a lot that started with an L and meant “standing army”. Anyway, sounds amusing. Is Cochot Mizuyanim not a term used ‘officially’ by the IDF? > [@elmwood](#): > > Everybody’s bowing now … I guess I better do that too. Judaism is indeed like that often, especially during prayer, presumably since you can’t really read “Baruch ata adonai, [bow] eloheinu melech aholam…” > [@Voyager](#): > > When I went to a bar mitzvah of a relative in a Reform temple he read a Torah portion in English What? I certainly did no such thing in _my_ Reform bar mitzvah. Oy, these goyim! 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