# Jewish Shunning of Interfaith Marriages **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2019, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875 "2019-04-22T09:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/81 "2019-04-24T14:34:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Point of info: In the US at least, this designation is widely seen as at least slightly pejorative, somewhere between “Negress” and “authoress”. There does seem to be something of a [generational movement among younger observant Jewish women to “reclaim” the term](https://forward.com/life/391707/lets-take-back-jewess-from-the-anti-semites/). But I don’t think that’s going to weather the decidedly derogatory usage of “Jewess” by today’s alt-right movement. Thanks! Expunged from my vocabulary. :o ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/82 "2019-04-24T15:02:25Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I don’t know why Methodists might have been more anti-Catholic than other Protestants, but when you look at John Wesley’s [Articles of Religion](http://www.umc.org/what-we-believe/the-articles-of-religion-of-the-methodist-church) from 1784, which even today’s Methodists still technically profess as their foundation, you notice things that strongly imply, “We aren’t Catholic,” particularly this doozy in Article XV. They weren’t. Methodists were Anglicans and Anglicans had their issues with Catholics. Wesley was putting himself firmly on the Protestant side of the spectrum, roughly in line with every other Protestant group. > [@](#): > > Primitive church? Which Christian religion was holding public prayer in 1784 in a tongue not understood by the people. Take a guess. You’re misreading it. The comma makes it ambiguous, but it should be read as “It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God and the custom of the primitive church,” meaning that the introduction of Latin mass was not in accordance with either the Bible or the traditions of the early church. It was in his eyes a more modern invention that he was against (although to be fair, ‘modern’ was probably 3rd or 4th century when mass moved from Greek to Latin, but I digress.) ---
**Author:** ![GuyTanzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/48db29/32.png) [@GuyTanzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuyTanzer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/83 "2019-04-24T15:55:38Z")
My Jewish grandmother was born in either Russia or Ukraine circa 1900, and came to the US around 1909 after a pogrom. She didn’t like my mother because my mom was one-fourth Catholic (gasp!). When my oldest brother married outside the faith, she wouldn’t come downstairs to meet the fiancee. I was born here in the US in 1959 and to me all this is incomprehensible, or like reading something by Margaret Mead. I can’t say I ever knew Grandma all that well; the last time I ever saw her was when I was nine. The feud between her and my mom was strong enough that when Grandma died in 1984, I didn’t learn until 1986, and I didn’t learn the exact date of her death until 2011. As for defining Jews as a race, I’m reminded of Harlan Ellison’s short story “I’m Looking for Kadak”. My own definition of Judaism is if Adolf Hitler wants your gold fillings, that’s probably close enough to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/84 "2019-04-24T20:03:30Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Are blue eyes evidence of gentile ancestry? Blue eyes are evidence of European ancestry. One could argue that, since the Jews were originally a Middle Eastern tribe (or group of tribes) that European ancestry had to be gentile at some point. On the other hand, if said gentiles converted prior to marriage/children then by Jewish custom/law they’re not gentile ancestors, they’re Jewish ancestors. [/quote] My Ancestry test came back 99.5% Ashkenazy, and 0.5% from the Indian subcontinent. [/QUOTE] Huh. Wandering Gypsy joined the _shtetl?_ (The Rom are originally from India, as the Jews are originally from the Middle East.) Makes you wonder… ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/85 "2019-04-24T20:40:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Huh. Wandering Gypsy joined the _shtetl?_ (The Rom are originally from India, as the Jews are originally from the Middle East.) Makes you wonder… **Kal** confirmed that there were indeed Romani Jews. Come to think of it, I haven’t seen a post from him in ages. I hope he’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/86 "2019-04-24T21:24:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Huh. Wandering Gypsy joined the _shtetl?_ Or somebody stepped out one night to visit the caravan. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/87 "2019-04-24T21:50:56Z")
Or… shall we say… unwilling intercourse? Pretty sure that’s how the Mongolian entered my family tree. (Thanks, Genghis! :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/88 "2019-04-24T21:54:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > My Ancestry test came back 99.5% Ashkenazy, and 0.5% from the Indian subcontinent. [/QUOTE] Huh. Wandering Gypsy joined the _shtetl?_ (The Rom are originally from India, as the Jews are originally from the Middle East.) Makes you wonder… [/QUOTE] Sometimes outcasts find themselves bonding as a result of a mutual oppressor. There is a decent size group of people within the eastern European descended Roma communities that have at least one Jewish great grandparent. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/89 "2019-04-24T22:31:51Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > You’re misreading it. The comma makes it ambiguous, but it should be read as > “It is a thing plainly repugnant to the Word of God and the custom of the primitive church,” meaning that the introduction of Latin mass was not in accordance with either the Bible or the traditions of the early church. It was in his eyes a more modern invention that he was against (although to be fair, ‘modern’ was probably 3rd or 4th century when mass moved from Greek to Latin, but I digress.) If I’m misreading it, I’m quite sure that a whole passel of Methodist ministers since 1784 have misread it, as well. And given the number of separate denominations which call themselves “Methodist” there were and possibly still are entire sub-denominations with seminaries full of people who consider themselves true Methodists who interpret and teach Wesley’s words in the most virulently anti-Roman Catholic way conceivable. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/90 "2019-04-24T23:06:40Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Are blue eyes evidence of gentile ancestry? My grandmother, who grew up in a Russian _shtetl,_ had blue eyes, as does my brother. There are blue eyes sprinkled all over both sides of my family. I should probably read the Ancestry report more closely, but “European Jewish” means that the DNA test revealed traits commonly found among European Jews. Which probably means an admixture of genes found among European Gentiles, history being what it is. Summary: Ancestry DNA test aside, we are all mutts on some level. P.S. The Ashkenazi stereotype doesn’t typically involve naturally blonde hair and blue eyes, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/91 "2019-04-24T23:18:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Resistance to interfaith or inter-ethnic marriages is not about eugenics. > [@dropzone](#): > > No? Maybe not in your mind, but the effect is the same: keeping the line pure clear back to Aaron or whoever. Nope. “Shunning” marriage outside the faith/race/ethnic group is about a variety of things - including distrust/fear/suspicion/prejudice against outsiders, and/or keeping traditions or religious faiths going. People however are not cocker spaniels.This is not about genetic purity; in fact it’s well recognized that human inbreeding has the potential to cause major problems (research the Hapsburgs for an example).\* \*come to think of it, cocker spaniels might have benefited from more selective breeding with a substantially better outcome, physically and mentally. \*\*of all the things my non-observant Jewish mother would’ve been most upset by, it certainly wasn’t the prospect of my marrying a shikse. I could’ve taken up with an Asian or black woman, or even declared being homosexual. The thing driving her over the edge would’ve been marrying an Orthodox Jewish woman. Mom had her prejudices. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/92 "2019-04-25T00:44:29Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > There are blue eyes sprinkled all over both sides of my family. I should probably read the Ancestry report more closely, but “European Jewish” means that the DNA test revealed traits commonly found among European Jews. Which probably means an admixture of genes found among European Gentiles, history being what it is. > > Summary: Ancestry DNA test aside, we are all mutts on some level. > > P.S. The Ashkenazi stereotype doesn’t typically involve naturally blonde hair and blue eyes, anyway. Mostly European early on on maternal side. > **[Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European](https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html)** > > Ashkenazi Jewish can largely trace their maternal heritage to Europe, new research finds. That contradicts earlier studies suggesting that most Ashkenazi heritage traces to the Near East. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/93 "2019-04-25T01:06:08Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > \*\*of all the things my non-observant Jewish mother would’ve been most upset by, it certainly wasn’t the prospect of my marrying a shikse. I could’ve taken up with an Asian or black woman, or even declared being homosexual. The thing driving her over the edge would’ve been marrying an Orthodox Jewish woman. Mom had her prejudices. 🙂 FYI I don’t know exactly how highly offensive “shikse” is (English dictionaries suggest it is “derogatory”/“dismissive”/“disparaging”, but it is a nice Semitic word, going back to Akkadian, that means something detestable, impure, diseased (eg an abscess, ulcer, et al.) ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/94 "2019-04-25T01:45:03Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > FYI I don’t know exactly how highly offensive “shikse” is (English dictionaries suggest it is “derogatory”/“dismissive”/“disparaging”, but it is a nice Semitic word, going back to Akkadian, that means something detestable, impure, diseased (eg an abscess, ulcer, et al.) The male equivalent, shaygetz, is considered offensive. No one has ever called me that; my Jewish coworkers at the time Ms. P and I were dating told me that using it is something that a low class person would do. Had I still been working in a heavily Orthodox neighborhood I might have heard it if they knew I was dating a Jewish woman, but I doubt it. I heard some Orthodox kids in that neighborhood say some pretty offensive things to Asian people, though, so it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875/95 "2019-04-25T01:57:01Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > FYI I don’t know exactly how highly offensive “shikse” is (English dictionaries suggest it is “derogatory”/“dismissive”/“disparaging”, but it is a nice Semitic word, going back to Akkadian, that means something detestable, impure, diseased (eg an abscess, ulcer, et al.) How offensive it is really depends on who is saying it and under what circumstances. Jewish Mother- “You’ve driven a dagger into your poor mother’s heart! Get that shikse out of my house!” That’s pretty offensive. Me to my sister in law “For a shikse, you’re all right!” Not so offensive. On Seinfeld- “You’ve got shikse-peal!” comedy gold. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-shunning-of-interfaith-marriages/832875.md?page=4)