# Jewish wine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [October 13, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193 "2014-10-13T10:58:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/21 "2014-10-20T18:29:25Z")
Junior Spaceman: > [@](#): > > There is also a religious prohibition against being drunk on the Sabbath, so it doesn’t hurt to use a wine that is good in small doses, but unbearable in amounts that someone would drink normal wine (ie a full glass). Not true. The only religious prohibitions against drunkedness are to not pray or perform other religious services while drunk. > [@](#): > > Just to add, Orthodox Jews won’t even drink kosher wine from a bottle opened by a gentile. Only if the wine is not “mevushal”, but most commercially-available kosher wines are. Baron Herzog and Kedem have some well-regarded wineries in California, my brother-in-law works at one of the Kedem ones. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/22 "2014-10-20T20:24:52Z")
Incidentally, the progenitor series of _Frasier_ had a vaguely related joke. On _Cheers_, Cliff made a derisive comment about a minor recurring character whose schtick was repeated failed attempts to pass the bar exam: “Carla, you’re talking to a man who thinks _affidavit_ is a Jewish wine.” ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/23 "2014-10-20T21:14:42Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Junior Spaceman: > Not true. The only religious prohibitions against drunkedness are to not pray or perform other religious services while drunk. Thank you for the correction, **cmkeller**. I remember now the context I heard this in (and misremembered) was a lecture at a very religious school, where the Sabbath (as a day) and religious services were inseparable, which is what sparked someone to ask the question about drinking wine for Kiddush, and later praying. My general point still stands, though. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/24 "2014-10-20T22:57:08Z")
Having just married into a Jewish family, I’ve only begun attending seders for the past few years, and have had the pleasure of being introduced to Manischewitz. It’s there on the table, but nobody drinks it, opting for good stuff. My wife told me (I had the feeling it was a running gag) … if you don’t like it as wine, it’s perfectly good as pancake syrup. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/25 "2014-10-21T01:12:07Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Just to add, Orthodox Jews won’t even drink kosher wine from a bottle opened by a gentile. Really, the WHOLE process must be done by Jews, although there is nothing wrong with serving gentiles at the table. Interesting. I should probably know this… Is this why I have a fancy special wine glass? Or is that really just ceremonial? ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/26 "2014-10-21T01:22:26Z")
Kosher wine has changed drastically in the past decade. There are kosher wines that are fantastic believe it or not. Some kosher wine can be purchased for hundreds of dollars should one so chose and served in a proper wine glass. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/27 "2014-10-21T02:17:24Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Everything I’ve read says that Manischevitz and similar wines were developed for Sabbath and holiday use. Would it typically be drunk at other times? What would observant Jews in America typically drink with dinner during the 20th century? (Nowadays, I know good European-style dry kosher wine is available.) What about European Jews? They presumably wouldn’t drink wine made from American Concord grapes. Was their wine sweet like Manischevitz? I’m surprised no one has answered my questions, since I’d think any Jews over 40 would have some idea what their families drank when they were growing up. My father is Jewish, but he’s completely non-practicing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bottle of Manischevitz or Mogen David outside of a store. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/28 "2014-10-21T04:20:47Z")
Hello Allan, yes kosher wine can’t be had with a nice meal or with friends, it doesn’t need to be Shabbos. But it must be Mevushal if had with non Jews. The mevushal issue gets complicated. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/29 "2014-10-21T15:39:39Z")
Well obviously that should say can be had not can’t, sorry didn’t see the typo until now I was focused on spelling mevushal. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/30 "2014-10-21T16:05:16Z")
“_Mevushal_”, incidentally, is just Hebrew for “cooked”. And yes, cooked wine tastes pretty much like you’d expect. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/31 "2014-10-21T16:26:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Kosher wine - there are a few rules for making wine Kosher, but the main one is that the entire process, from picking the grapes to bottling, has to be performed by Jews. This is based on the belief that drinking wine used for non-Jewish religious ceremonies is idolatry, and by removing all non-Jews from the process prevents the risk of the whole batch being “contaminated”. I won’t comment on the logic or fairness of the belief. So are there Jewish wineries in Israel or elsewhere (California?) that produce more mainstream Kosher wine? I can’t imagine the Mogen David/Manischewitz style is popular among the entire Jewish community worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![callander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@callander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/callander)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2014, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/32 "2014-10-21T17:01:06Z")
Not a winery, but here in TO there is a gem of a place, Grafstein wines. Great selection of kosher wine. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/33 "2014-10-22T06:20:11Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > What would observant Jews in America typically drink with dinner during the 20th century? > > I’m surprised no one has answered my questions, since I’d think any Jews over 40 would have some idea **what their families drank when they were growing up**. My father is Jewish, but he’s completely non-practicing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bottle of Manischevitz or Mogen David outside of a store. No need to be surprised. Let me tell ya, dude: Jewish families just don’t drink much. 🙂 You don’t have wine “with dinner”. You have wine before Sabbath dinner…when you recite a ceremonial blessing before you drink a small amount of wine. Seriously–there are millions of Jewish families from , say, 1910 through the 1990’s who just never had any wine in the house except ceremonial wine. During the past 30 years or so, it has become common to have an additional bottle on the table–of any of the many kinds of “normal” wines, red or white. Some people still use the sickly sweet stuff for the ceremonial blessing, and then pour the normal wine for drinking. Others have moved completely away from the sweet stuff, and use the normal wine for both the ritual, and for accompanying the dinner food. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/34 "2014-10-22T22:15:55Z")
> [@bump](#): > > So are there Jewish wineries in Israel or elsewhere (California?) that produce more mainstream Kosher wine? I can’t imagine the Mogen David/Manischewitz style is popular among the entire Jewish community worldwide. See post #10 with the link to Carmel Winery: > [@Johanna](#): > > When I was growing up in the East Side Cleveland suburbs, in a Jewish majority community, and hanging around with Jews, the preferred kosher wine among _actual Jews_ was from the [Carmel Winery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmel_Winery)’s Rishon le-Tzion vineyards in Israel. (N.B.: The name of Mount Carmel means ‘the vineyard of God’—not a confection made of browned sugar.) So that was the first thing that sprung to mind regarding the OP. > > P.S. Carmel Winery’s products tended toward the dry side, IIRC. Mediterranean style. In Israel, of course, they use the Old World grape species _Vitis vinifera_, which makes classic, proper-tasting wine. I’d be astonished if any _V. labrusca_ vines had been planted in any vineyards outside North America. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193/35 "2014-10-22T22:30:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > When I was in college someone gave me a bottle of Mogen David, which I promptly stuck in my father’s liquor cabinet. Some indeterminate (but long) time later, I retrieved it only to find the sugar had actually crystalized in the bottom of the bottle. Not sediment, mind you, but sugar. Hey, wine flavored rock candy! Sounds like a winner to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jewish-wine/701193.md?page=1)