# Jews and the slave trade **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649 "2009-07-11T04:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SomeBodyUK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SomeBodyUK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeBodyUK)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/1 "2009-07-11T04:46:49Z")
I was talking to a friend of a friend yesterday and he said that Jews were heavily involved in the transatlantic slave trade. What’s the truth guys? ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/2 "2009-07-11T05:01:44Z")
Well this certainly isn’t a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/3 "2009-07-11T05:03:04Z")
The truth is that your FoaF is absolutely wrong. [ > [@](#): > > It is in this context that Eli Faber wrote his scholarly book on the participation of Jews in the slave trade and slavery. He has provided the basic numbers that can be established on the relation between Jews and African slaves in the English and Dutch colonial worlds. His major finding is that Jews had a minuscule role in the slave trade and played only a minor role as slave owners wherever they resided in the New World. Of course, knowledgeable historians could have predicted the results of the book, given the circumscribed role of the Jews within European and American societies from the 15th through the 18th century. As Faber shows, the Jews were not a major factor in any international trade in the Anglo-Saxon world, except possibly the diamond trade. They were also not significant as planters or slave owning farmers, except possibly in Surinam. To the extent that they owned slaves they tended to own fewer slaves on average than their non-Jewish peers. A dozen or so participated in some aspect of the Atl antic slave trade to 1800, with only about half a dozen being serious traders, and even this group moved a very tiny fraction of the total Africans brought to America. The largest group of Jewish slave traders in the British Empire, and the only ones who systematically engaged in the African trade over a long period were the three or four Rhode Island Jewish merchants who in total controlled less than 10% of the voyages and less than 10% of the slaves delivered by Rhode Island traders in the 18th century. In turn Rhode Island was one of the minor ports within the English world engaged in the slave trade. Practically no Jews within England engaged in the far larger trades coming from Liverpool, Bristol and London. > > That it was necessary for a scholar to provide this much detail on this issue, tells us more about our own society than it does about the Jews and Africans in this period. ]([News Articles - FindArticles](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2005/is_3_33/ai_61372270/)) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/4 "2009-07-11T05:16:35Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > Well this certainly isn’t a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all. As the OP was posted as a straightforward question without any emotionally laden phrases or off the wall accusations, I see no reason to be suspicious of motives and I see no reason to post a commentary on the OP without actually providing any information of substance. Let us have everyone address the substance of the post and leavce the commentary out of it. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![SomeBodyUK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SomeBodyUK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SomeBodyUK)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/5 "2009-07-11T05:21:35Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > Well this certainly isn’t a bereft of ulterior motive, inflammatory post at all. It’s not inflammatory - I have no issues with Jews at all. Actually when this guy said it to me, I said it sounds like bullshit to me. I thought I’d ask here cos there’s so many smart people here ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/6 "2009-07-11T05:27:06Z")
BTW, this is [Faber’s book](http://books.google.com/books?id=ceC5T4_5e-wC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=jews+slave+trade&source=bl&ots=OKwFf19ibn&sig=RcLlwrZCZ7rHMdvDYS0fGgEGzYE&hl=en&ei=gR9YSvaZIsGktgejl7ndCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9) on Googlebooks. Likewise, Friedmans [_Jews and the slave trade._](http://books.google.com/books?id=I0ExEzLaX6YC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=jews+slave+trade&source=bl&ots=Fb4Hm3-_IY&sig=nYwjBF3de9xoc9kNQpTxURD4vsI&hl=en&ei=GSFYSvzVMMOktge31eHdCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7) In short the notion that Jews were somehow major (or central) players in the slave trade is an urban legend repeated by some and something much darker when used by vile creatures like Farrakhan (or “jewwatch” or stormfront, or what have you). ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/7 "2009-07-11T05:47:33Z")
> [@SomeBodyUK](#): > > It’s not inflammatory - I have no issues with Jews at all. Actually when this guy said it to me, I said it sounds like bullshit to me. > > I thought I’d ask here cos there’s so many smart people here Apologies, it just struck me as trollish at the time. Or at least more suited for GQ. (And I’d PM this to you but it looks like yours is disabled? Apologies to tom for more offtopica.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/8 "2009-07-11T14:42:58Z")
The slave trade required heavy financing and given the prominent role of the British in the slave trade, [Barclays bank](http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/apr/01/theobserver.observerbusiness1) comes to mind. Keep in mind that the slave trade depended on returning cargo from the new world, so how a British financial institution could avoid involvement with the slave trade while financing other Atlantic trade of the time seems rather suspect. So how were Jews involved in the trade? Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of [Gould](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I’d say that Jews were involved in the slave trade. What all this means, I don’t know. How critical was money controlled by Jews to the slave trade, I don’t know as well. But I don’t think we can dismiss Jewish involvement as financiers in the slave trade either. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/9 "2009-07-11T15:16:49Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > How critical was money controlled by Jews to the slave trade While some Jews were investors in certain ventures, they certainly weren’t critical investors in general. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > But I don’t think we can dismiss Jewish involvement as financiers in the slave trade either. It hasn’t been dismissed, it’s been pointed out that Jewish involvement with the slave trade was quite minor. Of course it happened, nobody’s denying that. And sure Jews invested in/were members of/etc… certain companies that traded in slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/10 "2009-07-11T15:45:07Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So how were Jews involved in the trade? > > Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of [Gould](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I’d say that Jews were involved in the slave trade. This is proof of nothing. Gould is an old family name in both England and Germany that does not have any inherent connection to Judaism. Pianist Glenn Gould, for example, is not Jewish nor are any of his ancestors. Bevan is a Welsh name, meaning “son of Evan” and Bening I’m not sure about but I don’t think it is Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/11 "2009-07-11T15:48:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Bevan is a Welsh name, meaning “son of Evan” and Bening I’m not sure about but I don’t think it is Jewish. Son of Ening? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jakesteele](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jakesteele](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jakesteele)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/12 "2009-07-11T16:27:57Z")
[http://www.angelfire.com/ill/hebrewisrael/jewsandslavery.htm](http://www.angelfire.com/ill/hebrewisrael/jewsandslavery.htm) [http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=jews+slave+trade&btnG=Google+Search](http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=jews+slave+trade&btnG=Google+Search) I typed in jews slavery on Google and the second link is the google page. Most of the sites that looked like they would say Jews were very involved in slavery brings up a WOT screen. It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren’t involved," were written by Jews. The first link appears to be a Jewish web site and says, “yeah, they were heavily involved.” Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, “'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/13 "2009-07-11T16:42:40Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren’t involved," were written by Jews. Damn nefarious Jewish academics! I just read a book on the Seven Years War by a guy with a Hungarian name. He partially trashed Frederick the Great’s reputation as a brilliant leader and slightly rehabilitated the Hapsburg war effort. Sadly he did so with numerous cites and a certain degree of thoughtfulness. So much as I’d like to disregard him as an authority, I feel I can’t entirely. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/14 "2009-07-11T16:46:50Z")
Look, Jews were involved in EVERY kind of trade, for almost two thousand years. Jews traded every conceivable commodity all throughout Europe and the Middle East, during Roman times, during Medieval times, during the Renaissance, and during the American Revolution. For most of their history Jews who didn’t want to starve had two options, usury and trading. This occurred from the lowest levels all the way up to the top. The golden ages of Western civilization couldn’t have occurred without Jewish merchants and Jewish moneylenders. So, of course some Jews were involved in the slave trade. They were involved in every trade. So what? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/15 "2009-07-11T17:28:43Z")
Even if Jews were involved at disproportionate levels (which I don’t know), what the fuck does it matter? That should have been the answer to your friends question, **Jeff**. What’s with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/16 "2009-07-11T17:41:35Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > . It appears that just about every book that say, 'no, Jews weren’t involved," were written by Jews. Damn those Jew Books with their Jew Facts! Amirite? > [@jakesteele](#): > > The first link appears to be a Jewish web site and says, “yeah, they were heavily involved.” 1. No, it does not appear to be anything of the sort. It is a site that claims that blacks are the real descendants of ancient Israel but actual Jews are not. Among other things. 2. No serious scholar would deny that Jews were involved, because that would be stupid. But the claim was not “Jews weren’t involved” but that Jews were’t the central/leading figures of the slave trade. > [@jakesteele](#): > > Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, “'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out.” Yah, why try reading to clear up your confusion, especially all those Jew Books? Much better to commit genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/17 "2009-07-11T18:03:46Z")
As I’ve said before, all the radical Afro-centrists who blame the Jews for the slave trade should also be blaming the damn AFRICANS for the slave trade. Who captured and sold the slaves in the first place? It wasn’t John James Feathersone-Pembroke Goldberg VII, 3rd Baron Jewbergenstein - it was some African chief with skin black as pitch, who captured other Africans in some tribal war and sold them to a slave trader. Blame HIM also if you’re going to blame the Jews. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/18 "2009-07-11T18:06:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What’s with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek) At least this was posted on Shabbat, in compliance with Zev’s Law. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Crap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.crap/32/3131_2.png) [@Dr.Crap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Crap)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/19 "2009-07-11T18:47:59Z")
> [@jakesteele](#): > > Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, “'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out.” Funny, I say the same about people like you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/20 "2009-07-11T19:16:46Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > Apologies, it just struck me as trollish at the time. Or at least more suited for GQ. Yep. In general, when tossing out a highly inflammatory claim (whether you believe it or not) that’s bound to be offensive to numerous people, it’s best to research it a bit beforehand to see if it’s even a debatable proposition. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649.md?page=2)