# Jews and the slave trade
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 11, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649 "2009-07-11T04:46:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/21 "2009-07-11T20:27:47Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#):
>
> Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of [Gould](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I’d say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.
Gould and Bevin, at least, were Quakers. Barclays developed out of an organization of gold traders on Lombard Street in London. The gold traders and money lenders of 17th century Lombard Street were almost exclusively Quaker.
---
### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/22 "2009-07-11T20:37:47Z")
Let’s assume from 1600-1860, as many as fifty Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade.
So what?
---
### Author:  [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/23 "2009-07-11T20:50:03Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Gould and Bevin, at least, were Quakers. Barclays developed out of an organization of gold traders on Lombard Street in London. The gold traders and money lenders of 17th century Lombard Street were almost exclusively Quaker.
The 'Gould" name really threw me off. Elliot Gould really threw me off. He is a Jew you know. And there is a lot of "gold "in Jewish names. I didn’t know that even though many Jews bear the name “Gould”, it was a result of Anglicizing Jewish names into common English names. Thanks to checking up on **Argent Towers** claim.
Anyway, I’m fraught with the perception or misperception that Jews were big in the banking industry during those times because of Christian opposition to usury.
---
### Author:  [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/24 "2009-07-11T21:04:04Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#):
>
> And there is a lot of "gold "in Jewish names.
How about glod?
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/25 "2009-07-11T21:16:47Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#):
>
> Anyway, I’m fraught with the perception or misperception that Jews were big in the banking industry during those times because of Christian opposition to usury.
In the Middle Ages, sure, but the Jews had been expelled from England in 1290, and only let back in in 1655. By the 1260s, Christians had overcome their opposition to usury, and most of the big banking and money lending groups were Christian (at that point, mainly Italian…the Lombards were called “The Bankers of Kings”). There wouldn’t be any big Jewish banks until the Rothschilds of the 19th century.
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/26 "2009-07-11T21:20:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> Bening I’m not sure about but I don’t think it is Jewish.
It’s a German name, from the German first name Behn.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/27 "2009-07-12T01:14:23Z")
> [@Dr.Crap](#):
>
> > [@jakesteele](#):
> >
> > Sometimes I get so confused by things like this I just end up saying, “'Nuke 'em all and let God sort it out.”
>
> Funny, I say the same about people like you.
**jakesteele** ’s comment is pretty clearly a sarcastic reference to an old movie cliche aimed at vague, off board persons. Your response looks very much like an effort to turn that into a personal insult aimed at him.
Please refrain from posting anything that could be construed as a death wish against another poster, particularly in **Great Debates**.
[/Modding]
---
### Author:  [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/28 "2009-07-13T05:13:45Z")
I believe the vast majority of the slave trade from Africa to the New World was conducted and financed by the Boston Brahmin in something called the Triangle Trade. These are the same guys that started schools like Harvard. That’s right, Harvard was founded by slave trading money.
---
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/29 "2009-07-13T06:02:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> In the Middle Ages, sure, but the Jews had been expelled from England in 1290, and only let back in in 1655. By the 1260s, Christians had overcome their opposition to usury, and most of the big banking and money lending groups were Christian (at that point, mainly Italian…the Lombards were called “The Bankers of Kings”). There wouldn’t be any big Jewish banks until the Rothschilds of the 19th century.
Interestingly, Lombard bankers (well, Italian bankers really - back then, if you were Italian and a moneylender, you were called a Lombard, even if you weren’t actually from Lombardia) faced a good deal of smear campaigns and persecutions over the centuries, too. When the Kings want to seize your gold, you can’t tell them “you and what army ?”.
While I’m no scholar on the subject, I’d bet dollar to donuts that there were Dolchtoß theories about Lombardian bankers any time a crusade came back with its tail between its legs or a financial endeavour of the realm went pear shaped.
---
### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/30 "2009-07-13T10:06:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#):
>
> That’s right, Harvard was founded by slave trading money.
A fascinating claim. Let’s see what happens when we look at it.
Harvard, founded 1636.
Slavery legalized in Massachusetts, 1642.
Harvard was established by the Colony of Massachusetts Bay to train Puritan ministers, and named after a minister who donated his library and half his estate to it on his death.
It remained that way until, at the earliest, 1708.
Might I gently ask where you get your assertion from, because it seems a bit dubious to me. Are you referring to the law school, perhaps? Royall and all that, circa 1785? It seems a bit odd to claim the school itself is founded on something that happened over a hundred years after it was founded.
---
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/31 "2009-07-13T11:33:44Z")
Semi-devils-advocate post:
1. On the question of whether the proposition is debatable, I’d say that it is. Certainly it’s a common idea; I shamefully confess I’d heard it myself and hadn’t really questioned it, although I hadn’t really thought much about it either way. **Finn** , thanks for your very informative post on the subject.
2. On the question of “so what?”, I think there is a value to knowing what one’s ancestors were up to. Moreover, my impression is that Judaism is perhaps the leading religion in the world that’s concerned with the history of its people. If it turned out that Jews were primary movers and shakers in the slave trade, I would expect modern Jews to be very concerned with this. Since it seems that they were not, it’s not something that I’d expect modern Jews to be much concerned with.
---
### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/32 "2009-07-13T11:45:05Z")
If you are going to pick on Teh Jooz, there are far more recent crimes to accuse them of, if the history of their most representative organisation is anything to go by\*.
- Mossad, in case you are wondering. And if I die in an accident, it wasn’t really one, I’ve just pissed off the wrong jew.
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/33 "2009-07-13T11:49:32Z")
> [@Dog80](#):
>
> How about glod?
Although they both wear funny hats and have beards, I suspect you’re confusing “Hasidim” with “dwarves”.
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> What’s with all the Jewish and black threads lately? (said sort of tongue-and-cheek)
That’ll be Reverend Wright and his “Them Jews” comment from a few weeks back.
---
### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/34 "2009-07-13T12:25:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> I suspect you’re confusing “Hasidim” with “dwarves”.
Ray, when someone asks if you’re a Glod you say “YES!”
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> **Finn** , thanks for your very informative post on the subject.
Glad to help. I’ve (unfortunately enough) read more than I can stomach about Farrakhan, this just sorta came up among the tidbits. What’s really interesting is that there were many Jews who fought quite hard for civil rights in America. Some Jews [helped create the NAACP](http://www.pbs.org/itvs/fromswastikatojimcrow/relations.html), for instance. The state of relations now is kinda sad.
A disproportionate number of blacks are mildly to ragingly anti-Semitic, schmucks like Farrakhan use vile lies to motivate their ‘base’ and that ends up spilling over into non NOI folks, just like Al Sharpton has blood on his hands due to his incitement… not to mention the comparatively more mild Jesse “Hymietown” Jackson and Rev. Jeremiah “Them Jews I mean Zionists” Wright.
I believe the expression is ‘le sigh’.
Social justice goes hand in hand with Tikun Olam and it’s a bitch that stuff like "Jews are responsible for the slave trade is what’s talked about instead of “let’s march together for justice and peace.”
---
### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/35 "2009-07-13T12:54:47Z")
Might as well provide a [cite](http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/5159_12.htm) for that assertion. [PDF.](http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/poll_2007/Anti-Semitism%20Poll%202007.pdf)
> [@](#):
>
> African-Americans
>
> The number of African-Americans with strong anti-Semitic beliefs continued to remain high and stable since 1992. The 2007 survey found that 32% of African-Americans hold strong anti-Semitic beliefs, more than three times more than the 10% for whites. In 1992 it was 37%; 1998 – 34%; 2002- 35%, 2005 – 36%.
[In 2007 it was lower among college grads](http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/poll_2007/22.asp)… but still distressingly high at roughly 1 in 5. It was much higher among non college educated blacks.
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/36 "2009-07-13T13:31:14Z")
Well, dang it, every time we’re presented with a good reason for anti-Semitism, someone like **Finn** will come along and shoot it down.
There are just too many answers to the usual stereotypes and tall tales. Obviously, what’s needed are new memes. Like Jews are behind efforts to vaccinate our children.
> [@](#):
>
> Jews have been backing vaccination for centuries.
See. [Even they admit it](http://www.forward.com/articles/10622).
---
### Author:  [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/37 "2009-07-13T13:46:13Z")
So, pretty much, Jews cause autism?
I knew it.
---
### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/38 "2009-07-13T14:19:46Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#):
>
> Well, with a Barclay founding partner by the name of [Gould](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barclays), and partners added in the 18th century by the name of Bevan and Bening, I’d say that Jews were involved in the slave trade.
[Nye Bevan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Bevan) was Jewish?
---
### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/39 "2009-07-13T15:12:59Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#):
>
> If you are going to pick on Teh Jooz, there are far more recent crimes to accuse them of, if the history of their most representative organisation is anything to go by\*.
>
> - Mossad, in case you are wondering. And if I die in an accident, it wasn’t really one, I’ve just pissed off the wrong jew.
What exactly is it that you imagine \*the \*Mossad has done?
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649/40 "2009-07-13T15:28:23Z")
> [@villa](#):
>
> [Nye Bevan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nye_Bevan) was Jewish?
He was one of those Baptist Jews. They’re the worst kind.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-slave-trade/502649.md?page=3)