# Jews and the WTC **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799 "2002-12-05T22:54:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/1 "2002-12-05T22:54:46Z")
As some of you might remember, right after Sept. 11 there was a rumor that Jews were warned to stay home and that they suffered few casualties from the attacks. This rumor was pretty much debunked as an urban legend, but I don’t remember seeing or hearing any concrete evidence. I went to Snopes, and their page (last updated on Sept, 21, 2001), was less than convincing from an evidence point of view. There is one link to (I presume) a casualty list, but the link no longer works. Snopes’ suggestion is to look at the names of the casualties, and you will see Jews on the list (are they kidding?). The rest of their ‘evidence’ seems to be based on the “this is just too preposterous to be true” theory. Here is the link to the article:[Snopes - Absent Without Leave](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm) The first couple of paragraphs contain the following text: > [@](#): > > In this case, there are plenty of anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, and anti-Israeli groups eager to use the horrors of September 11 as fodder for propaganda to serve their own political ends. and, > [@](#): > > The pieces quote above (i.e. the articles making the accusations used in the Snopes article) scarely merit the dignity of a rebuttal. and finally, toward the end of the piece: > [@](#): > > Why would Israel follow such a course of action, betray its staunchest ally, and doom thousands of innocent Americans to death? There are no rational answers to that question, only ugly propagandistic ones. This may all be true, but it scarcelly adds up to hard evidence. Has there been any study compiled of the victims and their religous affiliations? And if so, is there anything you all can point me to? My searches on the web have turned up nothing of note. Thanks, Max ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/2 "2002-12-05T22:56:58Z")
I don’t know where this thread will end up, but it won’t be in General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/3 "2002-12-05T22:57:34Z")
It is doubtful that the victims of the WTC attacks were compiled by religious affiliation. However, I can tell you that several Jewish people that I know of (none that I knew personally, however) were killed in the attacks. They certainly weren’t warned. While I didn’t work in the building, I was only two blocks away. I received no warning as well. In any event, the burden of proof is on those making the ludicrous claims, not on us to prove that the Jews didn’t do it. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/4 "2002-12-05T23:05:43Z")
**Zev** I’m not suggesting that “Jews did it”. My question is an honest one, not a political one. I don’t want this to get bogged down in a political debate. However, I don’t think that Snopes did its normal job of debunking this rumor. As an FYI, I also wrote Snopes a note asking basically the same thing, as well as asking what the link pointed to. They never replied. **Mister V** , I put it here because I was hoping to get some information, not to have a great debate. But if it must be moved, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/5 "2002-12-05T23:08:13Z")
Max, I’m sorry that I can’t give you a source. But I do remember seeing someone interviewed on one of the cable news networks about the subject. He said that the percentage of Jews killed in the WTC was the same as the percentage of Jews working in the towers. Further, common sense tells me that had there been a conspiracy involving such vast numbers of people, the secret would have gotten out. The terrorists would have known that and therefore would have been foolish to trust that many people with the secret of the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/6 "2002-12-05T23:12:59Z")
**Zoe** Thanks. I agree that common sense dictates that it’s untrue. However, I was hoping that there was some difinitive proof out there. Snopes answer left me kind of empty for facts. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/7 "2002-12-05T23:15:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max \* > \*\ ***Zev** > > I’m not suggesting that “Jews did it”. My question is an honest one, not a political one. I don’t want this to get bogged down in a political debate. However, I don’t think that Snopes did its normal job of debunking this rumor. As an FYI, I also wrote Snopes a note asking basically the same thing, as well as asking what the link pointed to. They never replied. > \*\* I didn’t think that you were suggesting that. However, what it all comes down to is that there is considerable evidence that these deeds were done by the 19 hijackers and thier helpers and none that it was done by anyone else. You may as well suggested that the Venusians did it in alliance with the Neptunians. You have as much evidence there as you do with the Jews. If your only intent was to criticize the quality of the Snopes article, my only comment would be that it was written shortly after the attacks, when details were probably still scarce and never updated. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/8 "2002-12-05T23:16:18Z")
Realistically, how could _just_ the “Jews” be warned? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/9 "2002-12-05T23:18:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bernse \* > \*\*Realistically, how could _just_ the “Jews” be warned? \*\* Don’t you know? Those pesky Jooz know everything and control everything. Surely they know who all their secret agents (read Jews) in the WTC or any other building are. It’s all part of the functions of ZOG… :rolleyes: Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/10 "2002-12-05T23:22:04Z")
If “the Jews” did it, why did so many of the world’s Moslems cheer when the towers fell? A friend of mine with two sons in a HS that has a large Moslem population said that most of them cheered when the the PA announced (at around 8:30MT) that the north tower had fallen. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/11 "2002-12-05T23:24:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*If “the Jews” did it, why did so many of the world’s Moslems cheer when the towers fell? A friend of mine with two sons in a HS that has a large Moslem population said that most of them cheered when the the PA announced (at around 8:30MT) that the north tower had fallen. \*\* Don’t you know? Those weren’t Muslims. They were pesky Jooz in disguise, trying to create the imperssion that Muslims were cheering, so that the ZOG will back Israel’s further agression against the occupied Palestinians… :rolleyes: Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/12 "2002-12-05T23:30:30Z")
Here we go… I ask a question about finding information, and I’m bombarded with “how could the Jews do it?” crap. Answer the question, don’t reply with bullshit like > [@](#): > > Those pesky Jooz know everything and control everything. . Sometimes I feel like I’m asking a question to Pee Wee Herman, and his response is always “ **I know you are, but what am I?** ” I’m not interested in the political debate. Only the hard facts of whether or not any list/study was completed to indicate just what **Zoe** said… (i.e. the percentage of Jews killed was approximately equal to the percentage of Jews working in the WTC). If there is no study, list or whatever… fine. Defenders of Israel, relax. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/13 "2002-12-05T23:30:54Z")
Max- what would constitute evidence that their wasn’t a message? How would you go about proving that? I say, unless you have an extra copy of “The International Jewish Coalition to take over the world, starting with getting a few thousand of our brothers and sisters out of the twin towers on September 11th”, then it’s safe to assume that Jewish people weren’t warned. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/14 "2002-12-05T23:32:43Z")
Max, Calm down. It was a joke. I was giving what the typical “conspiracy theorist” would answer. Ultimately there is no answer because you cannot prove that any group didn’t do anything. You can only prove what someone did do. So, ultimately, there is no evidence that the Jews were behind it, but plenty of evidence that the 19 hijackers were. That’s the simple answer to your question. If I offended you, I apologize… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/15 "2002-12-05T23:32:53Z")
How useful would it be to look at the names on the causalty list anyway? Sure, some names we might consider Jewish, but really?? Try to guess my religion or race from my user name. Given what we know about 9/11, the only thing sicker than this rumor are the events themselves. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/16 "2002-12-05T23:33:44Z")
**Meatros** Fair enough… I guess you could never **prove** it, although common sense would dictate that it didn’t happen. Circumstantial evidence would be along the lines of **Zoe’s** information. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/17 "2002-12-05T23:37:15Z")
**Zen** No problem. No offense taken. Like I said, I was just looking for some info. What better place to find it than the **SDMB**? Max ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/18 "2002-12-05T23:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Only the hard facts of whether or not any list/study was completed I don’t see any big lists of victims broken down by religion. They’re just “victims”, period. I think it will be the job of historians in the future to compile that sort of list. I think everybody’s still a little stunned at the magnitude of the thing. Anyway, actual Jews who died… > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. > [@](#): > > Sept. 12, 2001 > > …Also aboard Flight 11 was Daniel C. Lewin, who was co-founder and chief technology officer at Akamai Technologies, which provides support for high-traffic Internet sites, including [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com). Lewin, 31, was also a board member of the company he helped found, which launched its commercial service in April 1999. [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=26676](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26676) > [@](#): > > Daniel Lewin, named in FAA shooting memo, was officer in elite unit of Jewish state’s military > > Posted: March 1, 2002 > 7:10 p.m. Eastern > > By Paul Sperry > © 2002 [WorldNetDaily.com](http://WorldNetDaily.com) > > WASHINGTON – In another tragic irony of Sept. 11, three of the five Islamic hijackers aboard American Airlines Flight 11 were seated next to an elite Israeli commando. > > \< snip \> > > The 31-year-old Lewin, an Israeli citizen since a teen, was a captain in the Israel Defense Force and had extensive anti-terrorism training. > > \< snip \> > > Keith Lowery, a business associate of the late Boston high-tech executive who had dual citizenship, says the terrorists may have singled him out because of his “Jewishness” – as they did Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. According to [CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/september11/printable521522.shtml), two of the victims were Israeli citizens. One of those was Daniel Lewin, who was on the first plane to crash into the WTC, and the other one was Alona Avraham, who was on the second plane. Her memorial page. [http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/people/1539.html](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/people/1539.html) More Jews. [http://www.jewishsf.com/bk020906/us18.shtml](http://www.jewishsf.com/bk020906/us18.shtml) > [@](#): > > New York Jews commemorate 9/11 anniversary with ancient prayers, fresh hope and brand new Torah > > JOE BERKOFSKY > > …On display will be objects such as the ceremonial No. 1 helmet given to firefighter David Martin Weiss at his funeral, and a scrapbook his son, Michael, assembled on Sept. 11. > > \< snip \> > > In Brooklyn’s Brighton Beach, the World Congress of Russian Jewry and the Friends of Refugees of Eastern Europe will lead a silent march Sept. 11 through the Russian Jewish emigre neighborhood, sound a shofar and recite Psalms and kaddish, the prayer of mourning, for 16 Russian Jews who died in the World Trade Center attacks. [http://www.thejewishweek.com/bottom/specialcontent.php3?artid=365](http://www.thejewishweek.com/bottom/specialcontent.php3?artid=365) > [@](#): > > The Lives They Led (09/05/2002) > A cross-section of the Jewish victims of 9-11. > Adam Dickter - Staff Writer > > It may never be known exactly how many Jews died on Sept. 11. But based on the list of names, and biographical information compiled by The New York Times, and information from records at the Medical Examiner’s Office, there were at least 400 victims either confirmed or strongly likely to be Jewish. Many worked at Cantor Fitzgerald, the trading firm that lost more than 600 employees when the first plane crashed into the north tower. There were Jewish employees at other World Trade Center firms including Marsh and McLennan and Aon, as well as three firefighters, and passengers on the four hijacked planes. According to the Israeli Consulate, seven Israeli citizens were killed on Sept. 11. Other sources report that as many as 50 immigrants from the former Soviet Union were among the dead. > > The Jewish Week compiled a cross section of victims, from a Rockaways fireman to a Long Island securities lawyer and mother, an Israeli-born consultant and a Manhattan engineer who spent long nights tending to the transmitter for WPIX-TV…[more] Here’s the Victims List, as of November 19, 2002, and also the CNN Memorial List. I cordially invite you to browse all 2,948 names and see which ones are Jewish. Guess what? You can’t tell from their names. Somebody named “Brown” could be Jewish; somebody named “Goldstein” could be Gentile. [http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims\_list.htm](http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm) [http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/lists/by-name/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/lists/by-name/index.html) And I haven’t even looked for Pentagon bombing info. Anyway, if your question is, “Did any Jews did in the 9/11 bombings?” then the answer is an emphatic “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/19 "2002-12-05T23:54:35Z")
Another of the better known examples is Abraham Zelmanowitz, an Orthodox Jew who could have escaped and lived, but chose to stay with a non-Jewish quadrapeligic co-worker, Ed Beyea. Both perished when the building collapsed. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799/20 "2002-12-06T00:13:55Z")
I agree with **zev** that the burden of proof lies with those who make these claims. That being said, I haven’t seen anything that number of casualties by religion, but I have seen information on number of casualties by country. Although the numbers differ, Israel is among the top for number lost. I’m not sure of the date on this, but CNN has a [page with information on victims](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims.section.html). If you scroll down a little, there is a link to a map with counts by country. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-and-the-wtc/140799.md?page=2)