# Jews in WW2 Draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327 "2012-08-13T01:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/41 "2012-08-13T19:18:09Z")
> [@charmstr](#): > > Are you kidding? I loved (and still love) that stuff–along with it’s low rent Navy cousin creamed hamburgers-that-got-cooked-but-weren’t-eaten-yesterday-at-lunch. Whenever it was available on either of the two ships I served on, I jumped at the chance to eat it. Way better than oatmeal or scrambled eggs (which, to be fair, were almost never made from powdered eggs). Father had powdered eggs in the Pacific theater. He said they would have killed for spam. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/42 "2012-08-13T19:51:44Z")
I love creamed beef over toast. Thank you for reminding me to add it to my ‘things to eat’ vacation list. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/43 "2012-08-13T19:59:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > There was sometimes a preference because many American Jews spoke European languages. My father was a counter-intelligence officer in WWII because German was his first language. But that would be a preference based on language skills, not a particular religion. I guess they couldn’t use Yiddish curse-words as an impenetrible code, like the Native American code-talkers in the Pacific Theatre. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/44 "2012-08-13T20:26:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I guess they couldn’t use Yiddish curse-words as an impenetrible code, like the Native American code-talkers in the Pacific Theatre. 😉 Not in Europe, but it might have worked in Japan 🙂 See Japanese Rabbi joke. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/45 "2012-08-13T20:34:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Not in Europe, but it might have worked in Japan 🙂 See Japanese Rabbi joke. Now I have a picture in my head: "Admiral Yamamoto, we have intercepted a priority message from the striken American aircraft carrier … but what is the meaning of “Oy Gevalt geshreeyeh”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/46 "2012-08-13T20:47:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Indeed, it has been a major political issue in Israel for years, and the cause of considerable social friction. > > In answer to the OP - the issue is basically a relatively modern and specifically Israeli one. When the exemption was enacted, it was never intended to create a whole exempt class. That it did was due to the weird workings of the Israeli political system. None of this would have had an impact on a WW2 draft board. Yeah, the IDF has even gone so far as to create special all-male units to accomodate Ultra-Orthodox males who object to the “secular” aspects of the IDF; like men & women serving together or female commanders. Women can get a _complete_ exemption from the draft just by convincing a government rabbi that they’re to religiously observant to serve in the IDF with males; they don’t have to bother with yeshiva study. Marriage (even without pregnancy) get’s them off the hook too. ---
**Author:** ![Anchuldigs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anchuldigs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anchuldigs)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/47 "2012-08-13T20:50:47Z")
Off the top of my head I can think of at least 2 Orthodox Jews who served in the ETO. One, my old neighbor, was a German immigrant. He was often assigned to go behind German lines dressed in German uniform. My Orthodox cousin also served in Korea. The only special dispensations he received were wearing a yarmulke in the mess hall and being allowed to attend Friday night services. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/48 "2012-08-13T22:29:27Z")
American Jewish POWs were sorted out by the Germans (by physical appearance, circumcision, “H” for Hebrew on their dogtags) and sent to Berga concentration camp to be worked to death as slave labor. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/49 "2012-08-13T22:37:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > See Japanese Rabbi joke. IS this like the Chinese guy and Jewish guy playing chess, discussing who’s culture is older? “Oh yeah? What did you eat?” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/50 "2012-08-13T22:42:09Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I love creamed beef over toast. Thank you for reminding me to add it to my ‘things to eat’ vacation list. Is that what you gentlemen in the officer’s mess called shit on a shingle? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/51 "2012-08-13T22:45:20Z")
All of my uncles were Orthodox Jews (not Ultra-Orthodox though), and all fought in WWII, in Europe. One was captured by the Germans and sent to one of the camps. He somehow survived. I remember, at a very early age, asking about the number tattooed on his arm. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/52 "2012-08-13T22:57:03Z")
By the way: a great Kosher version of shit on a shingle uses chopped hardboiled egg instead of chipped beef, and sour cream in the white sauce. Army cooks called it “goldenrod.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/53 "2012-08-14T00:11:47Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Is that what you gentlemen in the officer’s mess called shit on a shingle? Dad made that out of roast remains. Thank G-d we didn’t have powered eggs. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/54 "2012-08-14T01:37:00Z")
I am pretty sure there are _pikuakh nefesh_ exceptions to military service in time of war. > **[Pikuach nefesh | Murder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikuach_nefesh#Murder)** > > Any act that intentionally causes the death of another person (considered to be an act of murder), that injures a person, so that the potential for death from the injuries is high, or that otherwise creates a dangerous situation that will very likely put one or more lives at risk, is not permitted for the preservation of life. Forbidden examples are: > 1.Harvesting organs from the body of a person who is clearly alive | > 2.Live organ donation, where the risk of death to the donor is extremely high... _Non-kosher food may be eaten under the following circumstances: If no kosher food is available to the person, and failure to eat the non-kosher food may result in starvation…An exception in which killing another person is permitted is the case of a rodef (aggressor), who may be killed in order to save the life of oneself or another. This permits self-defense and wartime killings in Judaism._ ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/55 "2012-08-14T19:15:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > An awful lot of G.I.s in Europe were Jewish. What is your definition of “An awful lot”? Can you provide a cite that indicates that “an awful lot of G.I.s in Europe were Jewish”? Numbers and percentages, if possible. Despite every movie made of the Normandy Cemetary showing the required Star of David in the sea of Crosses to prove that a few Jews were killed in Europe, I have NEVER heard the phrase “an awful lot”. I’ve never even heard the phrase “a lot”. I would also like to know how many Jews volunteered for service in WWII vs. How many were drafted? This would be an interesting exercise if these numbers could be compared to the number of non-Jewish Americans volunteered for service in WWII vs. how many were drafted. I know a lot of Americans joined the services voluntarily in the wake of Pearl Harbor. What percentage of them were Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/56 "2012-08-14T19:44:29Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I would also like to know how many Jews volunteered for service in WWII vs. How many were drafted? Why? > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > This would be an interesting exercise if these numbers could be compared to the number of non-Jewish Americans volunteered for service in WWII vs. how many were drafted. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/57 "2012-08-14T19:50:34Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I would also like to know how many Jews volunteered for service in WWII vs. How many were drafted? This would be an interesting exercise if these numbers could be compared to the number of non-Jewish Americans volunteered for service in WWII vs. how many were drafted. > > I know a lot of Americans joined the services voluntarily in the wake of Pearl Harbor. What percentage of them were Jewish? Why do you wonder those things? Do you wonder that about Catholic Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, Puerto Ricans, or Irish-Americand? If not, why about Jewish Americans but not other ethnic and religious minorities? Do you think that Jewish Americans volunteered in substantially fewer numbers than other groups? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/58 "2012-08-14T19:53:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Do you think that Jewish Americans volunteered in substantially fewer numbers than other groups? And if so, what conclusion it is suggest that one should draw from that? Or is it JAQ’ing about, what, Jewish patriotism/bravery/[insert term here]? ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/59 "2012-08-14T20:01:46Z")
Oh, and before the crazies start swinging from the lights, “killed in Europe” was in reference to their military service with the US Armed forces, NOT a swipe at the atrocities happening to the Jews all over Europe by the Germans during the War. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/60 "2012-08-14T20:14:26Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Why? > > Why? > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Why do you wonder those things? > > Do you wonder that about Catholic Americans, Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, Puerto Ricans, or Irish-Americand? > > If not, why about Jewish Americans but not other ethnic and religious minorities? > > Do you think that Jewish Americans volunteered in substantially fewer numbers than other groups? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > And if so, what conclusion it is suggest that one should draw from that? > Or is it JAQ’ing about, what, Jewish patriotism/bravery/[insert term here]? I quoted you all. And I lumped it together, because it deserves to be. When someone like TOMNDEBB throw a around a phrase like “an awful lot”, I believe it to be misleading, and not an accurate reflection of reality. Yet, no one ever calls these things into question, for fear of being labeled. As soon as that happens, everyone tries to explain why they aren’t anti-Jewish and the question and point gets lost. Did they participate? Yes. No question. Why would it be interesting to see the numbers who volunteered vs drafted? Honestly, you wouldn’t find the answer to this question interesting? Seriously? As a people or culture or race or whatever of people were being obliterated from the face of the earth, and it isn’t a valid question to ask what percentage of those living free in America gave up their freedom to fight the Germans willingly vs. Those that were drafted? Tell you what. Let TOMNDEBB or whoever answer the simple question of what “an awful lot” is, and we can deal with any embarrassment of cultural cowardice later. I think I can safely assume that more jews fought in WWII than Amish, but maybe someone will surprise me, [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327.md?page=4)