# Jews in WW2 Draft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327 "2012-08-13T01:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/161 "2012-08-17T15:14:05Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, the purpose was to ask if the US military or the US draft had ever given special consideration to Orthodox Jews. I consider the question answered long ago. As far as I am concerned, we can close the thread. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/162 "2012-08-17T16:41:03Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Every meet an Orthodox Italian? Ah yes, back to the Orthodox. Ready to take that wager yet? We can start real simple. Say, 100 bucks on whether or not you can spot an Orthodox along side 99 other random Americans. Ready to put your money where your mouth is? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/163 "2012-08-17T17:47:21Z")
I certainly made no claim to a superhuman ability to detect a person’s religion. Why you are off on a tangent is a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/164 "2012-08-17T19:09:44Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I certainly made no claim to a superhuman ability to detect a person’s religion. That you find it mysterious that I would hold you to your statements and logic is unfortunate. That you now believe the ability to tell Orthodox Jews from the rest of the population requires “superhuman” skills is interesting, considering that in this very thread you went on record comparing them to the Amish and declaring that they had “very carefully refused to asimilate.” That leaves you with a schizoid argument whereby you can both claim that Orthodox Jews are somehow an easily recognizable Other, outside the mainstread to the point where not only were **Stink** ’s claims not objectionable but _Lance_ disagreeing with them _was somehow beyond the pale_ (according to you, at least)… but actually identifying those people requires superhuman abilities which you don’t possess. > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, it is not a stupid, insulting comment. Jews have for centuries been a nation that lived without a country. Some groups of Jews behaved as other ethnic groups did. They adopted local ways and very quickly assimilated into the local culture. Other groups of Jews maintained their own culture. They very carefully refused to assimilate. > > This is why some groups adopted special ways of dress and so on. (Is there anything Jewish about wearing black coats and Stetsons? If so, why do other groups wear fur hats? A leader at some point just decided to adopt a style of dress to be distinct from the locals.) Like the Amish or some other groups, orthodox Jews have fought to preserve their own way of life. > > Of course many other groups do the same thing, and further there is nothing wrong with living your life as you choose. Still **lance’s** lack of understanding of what they are doing is breathtaking. So under your own claims, **Stink** was right to question the loyalty and patriotism of every Jew on the planet, **Lance** was wrong to object because according to you, Orthodox Jews are far beyond the mainstream and have deliberately refrained from assimiliating. And yet, again by your own claims, despite being so non-assimilated that it’s reasonable to distrust their loyalty and patriotism on nothing more than their identity as (Orthodox) Jews, you could not even possibly identify one without superhuman abilities. Generally, when an argument is sloppy, fallacious, erroneous and self-contradictory, it’s a good sign that its foundations are all but nonexistent. As you tried to brush off the problems with your argument earlier by alleging fictional “ad hominem” arguments and still haven’t addressed the underlying racist assumtions required for your position, perhaps now would be a good time to do that. Or you could just admit you were wrong, get yourself out of the corner you painted yourself into and agree that, yeah, **Stink** ’s nonsense has no place outside of Strmfrnt style discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/165 "2012-08-17T19:55:54Z")
For people wondering what them Orthodox are gonna weasel out of next, here’s [food for thought](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=662378). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/166 "2012-08-17T22:42:05Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > That you now believe the ability to tell Orthodox Jews from the rest of the population requires “superhuman” skills is interesting, considering that in this very thread you went on record comparing them to the Amish and declaring that they had “very carefully refused to asimilate.” That leaves you with a schizoid argument whereby you can both claim that Orthodox Jews are somehow an easily recognizable Other, . . . This, of course, assumes that the only aspect of assimilation worth considering is appearance. I would say that quite a few groups within the U.S. have chosen to refrain from assimilation over the years without ever bothering to find specific clothing to announce that separation. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Catholics prior to 1965, and any number of other peoples have refrained from assimilation–either wholly or in part–without specifically insisting on separation by dress. Very often it is through diet. Frequently it is done through the days or hours or habits of worship. Occasionally it is based on types of employment. For that matter, aside from the prohibition on mustaches, the Amish, themselves, would not have stood out by appearance prior to the turn of the twentieth century. Their failure to assimilate originally had much more to do with pacifism and a lack of church buildings than their appearance. Barring a claim by Paul that he can “spot a Jew” or “spot an Orthodox Jew,” your argument comes sufficiently close to a straw man as to be invite the name “Scarecrow.” I am aware that the the “dual loyalty” theme is too easily bandied about, (and I spoke against it, myself, in this thread), but your claim that Paul is out of line for having made an argument based on appearance when he has not made that argument simply makes your statements look odd. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/167 "2012-08-17T23:41:58Z")
> [@Paul](#): > > This is why some groups adopted special ways of dress and so on. (Is there anything Jewish about wearing black coats and Stetsons? If so, why do other groups wear fur hats? A leader at some point just decided to adopt a style of dress to be distinct from the locals.) Like the Amish or some other groups, orthodox Jews have fought to preserve their own way of life. Not straw if the reference to “fur hats” was meant to refer to [this sort of thing](http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/152676.html) in the context of his agreeing with **Stink** ’s quote and disagreeing with **Lance** in the context of conflating “orthodox Jews” who number in the millions worldwide, with the ultra-Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/168 "2012-08-17T23:54:21Z")
Let’s really confuse things and bring in Modern Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/169 "2012-08-18T00:24:50Z")
This thread is ridiculous, but considering the OP, not shocked. Jews have been serving in wars since the Revolution - and on both sides of the Civil War, not to mention a half million in WWII. Should be noted that some of them had German parents…or were born in Germany themselves. [Link](http://skokie.suntimes.com/news/12523114-418/jewish-world-war-ii-vets-describe-battle-experiences.html). And no one knew\* what was going on! Not really. Finally, “Orthodoxy” as we know it today had a popularity explosion _after_ WWII. \*the majority of the American public ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/170 "2012-08-18T00:33:45Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Finally, “Orthodoxy” as we know it today had a popularity explosion _after_ WWII. > > \*the majority of the American public Thank you, I did not know that. > [@tomndebb](#): > > Barring a claim by Paul that he can “spot a Jew” or “spot an Orthodox Jew,” your argument comes sufficiently close to a straw man as to be invite the name “Scarecrow.” > I am aware that the the “dual loyalty” theme is too easily bandied about, (and I spoke against it, myself, in this thread), but your claim that Paul is out of line for having made an argument based on appearance when he has not made that argument simply makes your statements look odd. Thank you, too. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/171 "2012-08-18T02:49:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So the whole point of this thread has been to reinforce your bigoted notions about Jews? I wouldn’t say that, but **Paul** does seem to have “gone native” some the past year and I might think it’s time to bring him in from the [del]cold[/del] (Qatar? Saudi Arabia?) heat, if I had an opinion. Which I have never had in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/172 "2012-08-18T13:46:46Z")
Gosh, we have a Pit for that sort of thing, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/173 "2012-08-19T01:53:01Z")
Well, we would, if I ever had an opinion. Which I don’t. **TriPolar** has a Pittish opinion. My statement was more like concern about change in a friend’s posting style. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/174 "2012-08-19T02:34:02Z")
I don’t believe Paul is antisemitic. I didn’t know much about Jews until I became one. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327/175 "2012-08-19T02:41:23Z")
I do not believe it, either, but he can sound like he is sometimes and for this I blame his environment. You didn’t have to go through a year of study before they let you convert? Potential Roman Catholics do and they don’t even need to learn another language anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-in-ww2-draft/631327.md?page=8)