# Jews, Mormons, and Posthumous Conversion: Am I Missing Something? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 30, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741 "2006-08-30T02:30:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/61 "2006-08-31T07:25:17Z")
I don’t care what gets done in my name after my death, and that includes puppy-killing. At worst, the Mormon rituals are a waste of someone else’s time. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/62 "2006-08-31T13:26:14Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > See, this is the kinda stupid stuff that buying into Great Sky Fairies gets you into … Heh. It doesn’t take religion to argue about ancestral identity. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/63 "2006-08-31T13:35:55Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > There are two problems with this. The first is that this isn’t how Judaism works. No Jew is going to do this, for the simple reason that you don’t wind up in a worse place for not being Jewish. In all my years of Hebrew School and temple, my rabbi ever said, even once, that we were saved in God’s eyes more than anyone else. We had obligations, but we ddn’t get any special redemption because of it. That’s the reason you don’t see Jews in white shirts on bicycles in your neighborhood. > > Second, if for 2,000 years Jews had killed Mormons for being Mormon, you might feel differently. I know Mormons haven’t done this, but you are Christian, right, and you inherit some of the history. > > But my thanks for supporting the actual position of the church. You seem to get it, the church seems to, but **Monty** doesn’t. Well, yes, I know that quite well. But the question was asked, so I answered. _Nobody_ does this besides us, but the question is still asked, and it’s a reasonable hypothetical IMO, because people do want to say “well how would YOU feel?” And the answer to that is, we wouldn’t mind. Even if it was Scientologists or Moonies. We just have a very different perspective on it. God is certainly powerful and all, but there is a way laid down for us to follow to salvation, and that requires a physical ordinance. He plays by his own rules, that’s all. He gives us a way to get back to him, and that’s the way. I do understand the feelings, what with the persecution and all. And of course we can’t aboid being lumped in with other Christians and the history. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/64 "2006-08-31T14:13:31Z")
I think part of the dynamic of this is that Jews, of whatever amount of religiousity, are generally sick and tired of the seemingly endless efforts of Christians to convert them. For a lot of Christian denominations, “conversion of Jews” appears, for historical reasons, to be hard-wired into their faiths - in the past of course this was accompanied by violence and persecution, so “resistance to conversion” got hard-wired into Judaism by a simple cultural evolutionary process. Nowadays, of course, conversion efforts have gone from the life-threatening to the merely trivially annoying - such as “Jews for Jesus” pamphlets and the like. Mormons attempting to convert Jews from beyond the grave just seems like yet another in a long line of Christian irritations, impositions and annoyances, and on the scale, a reasonably minor one. I suspect the majority Jewish response would be “why don’t you just leave us the heck alone already?! Go bother some Buddhists for a change” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/65 "2006-08-31T14:30:44Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > I’m with EVA. I frankly am having difficulty understanding why people don’t see the problem with this. > > Respect for the dead includes respect for the beliefs and wishes of the dead. If Grandpa said he didn’t want to be an organ donor because he wants to be buried with all parts attached, then you don’t make him an organ donor because he wouldn’t want it – even if you think it would be for the greater good of society. > > It is especially galling when the dead were people who not only believed something, but who literally died for that belief. Pretty much. And from what I gather, not just Jews in the Holocaust were baptized but some rather prominant Catholic martyrs. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/66 "2006-08-31T16:25:51Z")
If anybody is looking for real fun, just wait till the Mormons start trying to posthumously baptise Muslim ancestors. The day is coming, without a doubt. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/67 "2006-08-31T16:55:27Z")
That certainly would be interesting; however, that day is probably still far off. The LDS Church has a very strict policy about baptizing Muslims, since their families all too often feel that the only remedy for a converted Muslim is to kill him. As a result, it is very difficult for a Muslim to get permission to be baptized; it does happen every so often, but it takes a long time and is relatively rare. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/68 "2006-08-31T17:12:12Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > That certainly would be interesting; however, that day is probably still far off. The LDS Church has a very strict policy about baptizing Muslims, since their families all too often feel that the only remedy for a converted Muslim is to kill him. How would that affect a posthumous baptisim? Would they kill they baptizer? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/69 "2006-08-31T17:48:41Z")
I’m afraid you’d have to ask an imam about that one. I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741/70 "2006-08-31T19:13:16Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > The LDS Church has a very strict policy about baptizing Muslims, since their families all too often feel that the only remedy for a converted Muslim is to kill him. As a result, it is very difficult for a Muslim to get permission to be baptized; it does happen every so often, but it takes a long time and is relatively rare. Sounds like you’re saying that if Jews want Mormons to stop baptizing their ancestors, they should start threatening to kill people because the LDS Church will ignore their rationally-stated moral objections. Squeaky wheel get the grease, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-mormons-and-posthumous-conversion-am-i-missing-something/370741.md?page=3)