# Jews take over East Ramapo School District and Defund It **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 27, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714 "2014-09-27T13:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/181 "2014-10-01T00:15:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree that jot is in everyone’s interest to have an educated populace, but how would the idea work counter to that? At the very least it seems like it would prevent actions like the ones in question, which will lead to a less educated populace. How/why, specifically is it a bad idea? Of course it’s in everyone’s interest to have an educated populace. And, since it’s in everyone’s interest, there’s no valid reason to purposely disenfranchise the single, the childless, and the empty-nesters. Then there’s the issue of what to do with an incumbent whose children “age out” of the school system or even get kicked out of school. What about an incumbent who loses custody of children in a divorce case and the custodial parent along with the children move to another school district? Your idea will create two societies in one jurisdiction: one with children and one without. And your idea gives electoral power to just one of those societies. It’s not that different from deciding to let only the rich vote on education vouchers to be used for private school tuition. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/182 "2014-10-01T13:59:03Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I already provided this [cite](http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2014/07/28/east-ramapo-hillcrest-school-appraisal-probation-avi-vardi-sale/13271939/). So, my “silence” is more that you weren’t paying attention. > > There is an ongoing investigation of an apparent direct link between the board and the appraiser, but for now, the buyer bribed the appraiser, and the board went along with it. Judged very charitably, _your_ silence means that _you_ weren’t paying attention. Because your cite does not contain the information that you claim it does. So I’m thinking perhaps you confused the statement in that article that “_The state Attorney General’s Office said that the original charges didn’t deal with the alleged $5,000 payment from Congregation Yeshiva Avir Yakov to Vardi, but the investigation continues_”, with your claim that " _There is an ongoing investigation of an apparent direct link between the board and the appraiser_", which is nowhere stated. Perhaps. But I doubt that. The technique of just linking to cites which don’t actually back up the claim without quoting the relevant section is one that’s long been a favorite of bluffers and fakers on this MB and elsewhere, and that’s where my money is in this case as well. > [@](#): > > The didn’t consider it a terrible fraud because they were the ones who wanted the sale to go through in the first place. The seller (the low appraisal accepting public school board) and buyer (the appraiser bribing private school) were colluding so that the buyer could get the lowest possible price. They were caught and the deal was unwound. Fine, best possible spin, despite all evidence to the contrary is that the school board members are just the worst negotiators in the world. > > That’s some omission! The National Board fails to mention anywhere on their extensive website that they have this role in the lives of private school kids that you claim. You posted a cite that they are supposed to provide money for buses, which they were. You’re trying to extend that into something that no one else is claiming it is. Public school boards exist, as stated to be “champions for public education in their states and communities”. OK, I think we’ve been around the mulberry bush as to this stuff already. I don’t have anything to add at this time, but fortunately nothing additional is necessary either, so all is good. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/183 "2014-10-01T14:19:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > _ **Voir encore** _: “In [jurisprudence](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisprudence), a **natural person** is a real human being, as opposed to a [legal person](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_person)” > > The americans seem to have prefered the phrase corporate person but legal person - personne juridique - in civil law is the body corporate that is in distinction with the natural person. Whatever the form of the body corporate, as the corporation or the company or any other form of the body corporate that has a legal personality, it is the legal person. Okay, then I guess you are right - a private school is a legal person in that sense. But that doesn’t really make much difference - public school boards have no authority over private schools, and whether or not they are legal person doesn’t affect that. > [@](#): > > I can not see anyone who has said there is a single private school board, it is only the case that a private school will have a board, if there is a private school. I am not sure what this means. A private school may or may not have a board. In American usage, the school board refers to the public school board. There will be one of those. It may or may not be the case that there is any private school board, but it doesn’t matter. “The” school board is the public school board, and it administers public schools only. > [@](#): > > To give the phrase the school board the sole meaning of the public school board is not a precise usage. the public school board however makes this clear. No offense, but given the phrasing of some of your posts in this thread, I wouldn’t be advising the rest of us on the precise use of English. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/184 "2014-10-01T15:59:25Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Judged very charitably, _your_ silence means that _you_ weren’t paying attention. Because your cite does not contain the information that you claim it does. So I’m thinking perhaps you confused the statement in that article that “_The state Attorney General’s Office said that the original charges didn’t deal with the alleged $5,000 payment from Congregation Yeshiva Avir Yakov to Vardi, but the investigation continues_”, with your claim that " _There is an ongoing investigation of an apparent direct link between the board and the appraiser_", which is nowhere stated. Perhaps. From the linked cite (it’s a short article, and this was hard to miss): "Prosecutors have declined to identify the congregation’s representative who supposedly paid Vardi. The prosecutor also declined to identify\*\* the school board member\*\* the complaint says “e-mailed Vardi’s private cell number and other contact information to the board attorney.” Bolding mine. “Vardi” being the dude who admitted to being bribed, and “the school board member” being a member of the school board… There is an alleged direct link between the the school board and the bribed appraiser. The investigation is ongoing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/185 "2014-10-01T16:03:27Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Of course it’s in everyone’s interest to have an educated populace. And, since it’s in everyone’s interest, there’s no valid reason to purposely disenfranchise the single, the childless, and the empty-nesters. > > Then there’s the issue of what to do with an incumbent whose children “age out” of the school system or even get kicked out of school. What about an incumbent who loses custody of children in a divorce case and the custodial parent along with the children move to another school district? > > Your idea will create two societies in one jurisdiction: one with children and one without. And your idea gives electoral power to just one of those societies. It’s not that different from deciding to let only the rich vote on education vouchers to be used for private school tuition. This doesn’t address my idea, which was to ensure _a majority_ of the school board seats be held by those with children attending public school. Your comments are appropriate to an idea that mandated ALL schoolboard seats go to people with kids attending the public school. So, no one is disenfranchised at all. Not the childless, not the elderly, no one. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/186 "2014-10-01T16:05:50Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > From the linked cite (it’s a short article, and this was hard to miss): > > "Prosecutors have declined to identify the congregation’s representative who supposedly paid Vardi. The prosecutor also declined to identify\*\* the school board member\*\* the complaint says “e-mailed Vardi’s private cell number and other contact information to the board attorney.” > > Bolding mine. “Vardi” being the dude who admitted to being bribed, and “the school board member” being a member of the school board… There is an alleged direct link between the the school board and the bribed appraiser. The investigation is ongoing. The key part missing is your last sentence: “_The investigation is ongoing_.” The article, including your quote, doesn’t say there is any ongoing investigation of this or anything involving any board member. You just made it up. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/187 "2014-10-01T16:28:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The key part missing is your last sentence: “_The investigation is ongoing_.” > > The article, including your quote, doesn’t say there is any ongoing investigation of this or anything involving any board member. > > You just made it up. Sorry. You’re right, the investigation “continues”. I guess that’s somehow different from it being “[ongoing](http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2014/07/28/east-ramapo-hillcrest-school-appraisal-probation-avi-vardi-sale/13271939/)”. “The state Attorney General’s Office said that the original charges didn’t deal with the alleged $5,000 payment from Congregation Yeshiva Avir Yakov to Vardi, but the investigation continues.” In other words, there is a [continuing investigation](http://jpupdates.com/2013/07/31/rockland-ny-felony-charge-against-appraiser-in-sale-of-public-building-to-yeshiva/) into how a bribe between a seller and an appraiser took place, and there is an allegation that a specific board member acted as an intermediary (which prosecutors are not specifically naming yet), but somehow my claim that there is an ongoing (sorry, "continuing) investigation including a direct link between the bribery and the school is false? Here’s a quote from this above cite: "Vardi, along with other unidentified people, allegedly falsified the appraisal report and directed it to the district to justify selling the Hillcrest building for $2.66 million less than its independently appraised market value, the complaint states. _ **Vardi was hired by the school board’s attorney to provide the false appraisal after an unidentified board member emailed Vardi’s cell phone number and other contact information to the attorney, according to the complaint** _." ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/188 "2014-10-01T16:33:02Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Sorry. You’re right, the investigation “continues”. I guess that’s somehow different from it being “[ongoing](http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2014/07/28/east-ramapo-hillcrest-school-appraisal-probation-avi-vardi-sale/13271939/)”. > > “The state Attorney General’s Office said that the original charges didn’t deal with the alleged $5,000 payment from Congregation Yeshiva Avir Yakov to Vardi, but the investigation continues.” > > In other words, there is a [continuing investigation](http://jpupdates.com/2013/07/31/rockland-ny-felony-charge-against-appraiser-in-sale-of-public-building-to-yeshiva/) into how a bribe between a seller and an appraiser took place, and there is an allegation that a specific board member acted as an intermediary (which prosecutors are not specifically naming yet), but somehow my claim that there is an ongoing (sorry, "continuing) investigation including a direct link between the bribery and the school is false? > > Here’s a quote from this above cite: > > "Vardi, along with other unidentified people, allegedly falsified the appraisal report and directed it to the district to justify selling the Hillcrest building for $2.66 million less than its independently appraised market value, the complaint states. > > _ **Vardi was hired by the school board’s attorney to provide the false appraisal after an unidentified board member emailed Vardi’s cell phone number and other contact information to the attorney, according to the complaint** _." This is pathetic. Obviously there’s no difference between ongoing and continues. But the ongoing investigation involves the payoff between the buyer and the appraiser. (I highlighted this distinction in my earlier post, in which I quoted the sentence you’re now grasping at.) There’s nothing to suggest that there is any sort of ongoing investigation of any connection between the board member and the appraiser. That’s the part that you made up yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/189 "2014-10-01T17:00:46Z")
You’re right. An allegation of bribery has now been substantiated when the bribed person pled guilty a few months ago. The allegation involved a specific, as yet unnamed school board member acting as an intermediary. The investigation of the bribery is continuing. So, do prosecutors wear noise canceling headphones when the part about the school board member comes up, or do they just stick their fingers in their ears? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/190 "2014-10-01T17:08:01Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > You’re right. An allegation of bribery has now been substantiated when the bribed person pled guilty a few months ago. The allegation involved a specific, as yet unnamed school board member acting as an intermediary. The investigation of the bribery is continuing. > > So, do prosecutors wear noise canceling headphones when the part about the school board member comes up, or do they just stick their fingers in their ears? Presumably they’ve already investigated it and not found evidence that the board member was involved in the fraud. That a board member forwarded contact info for the appraiser doesn’t necessarily mean that he was part of a fraud that the guy intended to pull. Or maybe it does. And maybe the prosecutors are still investigating. But the point is that there’s been no evidence that this is the case, and the article that you pointed to does not say this. If you have any sort of integrity you should refrain from making things up and claiming them as fact. And if you don’t, then maybe you should stop criticising this board and focus on matters closer to home. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/191 "2014-10-01T17:18:26Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > This is very strange to me, of course for the private schools in any legal form there is a board, as we would have it, a conseil d’administration, is it even possible in the US to have a school which is not in any way a legal person with a governing body - a board? You can set up a private school as a sole proprietorship in which just one person calls the shots, if you want. This is not unique to the US. Private schools here (and in other countries) are essentially just businesses (except those which are not organized for profit.) They are subject to some regulation, but there is no legal requirement that they be governed by a multi-member body. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/192 "2014-10-01T22:48:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Presumably they’ve already investigated it and not found evidence that the board member was involved in the fraud. That a board member forwarded contact info for the appraiser doesn’t necessarily mean that he was part of a fraud that the guy intended to pull. > > Or maybe it does. And maybe the prosecutors are still investigating. But the point is that there’s been no evidence that this is the case, and the article that you pointed to does not say this. > > If you have any sort of integrity you should refrain from making things up and claiming them as fact. And if you don’t, then maybe you should stop criticising this board and focus on matters closer to home. Your honor, I wasn’t even there when that man was murdered, and even if I was, it was self defense. So, great we are in agreement that a bribery allegation that turned out to be true included an allegation that a school board member was involved. And we agree that this allegation still appears to be under investigation, as there is no indication that this investigation has been closed. Unless you have some update that I’ve been unable to find? Your note above indicates that you agree with this assessment, which was the sum total of the claim that you originally disagreed with. You’re just trying to save some face, and cloak it in odd allusions to my home life. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/193 "2014-10-02T02:25:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This doesn’t address my idea, which was to ensure _a majority_ of the school board seats be held by those with children attending public school. Your comments are appropriate to an idea that mandated ALL schoolboard seats go to people with kids attending the public school. So, no one is disenfranchised at all. Not the childless, not the elderly, no one. No, you flaming moron, it addresses the point of requiring _any_ member of the board to have a child attending the local public school. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/194 "2014-10-02T07:14:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, you flaming moron, it addresses the point of requiring _any_ member of the board to have a child attending the local public school. Now you’re just sputtering. Reread the exchange. Your last post does address the actual idea I posted. I crafted it to avoid incidents like that related in the OP. It seems like my idea would do much to prevent that from happening with no real downside. Your talk of “disenfranchising people” and “creating two societies” has nothing to do with what I posted. For clarity, what is your take on the incident shared in the OP? Should we try to lessen the likelihood of that happening elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/195 "2014-10-02T12:31:15Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > So, great we are in agreement that a bribery allegation that turned out to be true included an allegation that a school board member was involved. And we agree that this allegation still appears to be under investigation, as there is no indication that this investigation has been closed. Unless you have some update that I’ve been unable to find? > > Your note above indicates that you agree with this assessment, which was the sum total of the claim that you originally disagreed with. To the contrary, you’re now essentially admitting that you made it up and there’s no report that there’s a continuing investigation of any board member, contrary to your earlier statements. Had you put it this way to begin with, this would have been a much briefer exchange, but of course at that time you were aiming higher. The fact that you now claim to believe that because you’ve not seen a report that there is no such investigation means that there must be one is amusing, but not the same as your earlier claim. > [@](#): > > You’re just trying to save some face, and cloak it in odd allusions to my home life. If you have any familiarity with colloquial speech you would have recognized the term look after things closer to home and not assumed it was a reference to your home life. (Now that you bring it up, I would not be surprised if you have troubles with your home life too, but that’s not of interest to me and not relevant here.) My point was rather that you’ve demonstrated a lack of intellectual integrity in this exchange, and a person with this lack of integrity has no business criticizing school board for the same but should focus first on his or her own ethics. Take a shot at it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/196 "2014-10-02T13:28:51Z")
I kind of like **magellan** ’s idea, with the caveat that people not eligible to serve on the school board should get a small tax break. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/197 "2014-10-02T13:38:58Z")
Correction in the third sentence (bolded): > [@magellan01](#): > > Now you’re just sputtering. Reread the exchange. Your last post does **not** address the actual idea I posted. I crafted it to avoid incidents like that related in the OP. It seems like my idea would do much to prevent that from happening with no real downside. Your talk of “disenfranchising people” and “creating two societies” has nothing to do with what I posted. > > For clarity, what is your take on the incident shared in the OP? Should we try to lessen the likelihood of that happening elsewhere? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/198 "2014-10-02T13:42:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I kind of like **magellan** ’s idea, with the caveat that people not eligible to serve on the school board should get a small tax break. Who is not eligible to serve? Everyone can serve. I’m just saying that if there are 12 seats on the board, seven of them need to be held by people with students in the public school system. Actually, six might even be enough. As at least one of them would need to be convinced to vote with the parents who do not have kids in the school system. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/199 "2014-10-02T13:45:20Z")
The real issue is not the members of the board, it’s the voters. If the voters want to prioritize the private schools over the public schools, then they’ll find some candidate with children in the public schools who will support this agenda, no matter who is eligible to serve on the board. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714/200 "2014-10-02T13:46:16Z")
Ah, sorry. I mixed up your idea with **Monty** ’s version of it. I still think there should be a break, though; after all, parents with kids are eligible to hold all 12 (or whatever) seats. ETA: What parent whose children _actually attend_ public schools is going to defund them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jews-take-over-east-ramapo-school-district-and-defund-it/699714.md?page=11)