# "JFK and SAM" New Light on Kennedy Assassination? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932 "2006-07-02T12:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/21 "2006-07-03T04:56:33Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Lest members think you are older than I, I read that book in 1961. Were you in grade school in 1961? Nah. Born in '63. I read it some time in the 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/22 "2006-07-03T13:10:58Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > There was no ‘magic bullet’. The magical path it took is a total distortion of fact by people who clearly knew better. They made it ‘magic’ by showing Connolly sitting directly in front of and slightly lower than Kennedy. In fact, his seat was substantially inboard of Kennedy’s (enough to provide a walkway to the back seat), and significantly lower. If you put the seat in the right place, the need for the ‘magic’ in the bullet trajectory goes away. > > And in fact, a company did a computer simulation a few years ago that traced the path of the bullet backwards through Connolly and through Kennedy, then in a straight line back from there. It went straight through the fourth floor window of the Texas Book Depository. [Linky-Loo](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt-faa.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/23 "2006-07-03T14:05:45Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Given that J Edgar died in 1972\*, I tend to doubt that he had much to do with killing Sam Giancana in 1975. > \*Or at least that’s what they want us to believe! But I still don’t understand why the Chicago Mob wanted Giancana dead-he was 'retired" from the Mob, and had lost all of his Havana properties. Yet the starnge survellence from the FBI? Why? And an eyewitness stated that all of the surveillance cars left early on the night of the hit-why? I could understand if Giancana was trying to return to a position of power, but he wasn’t-he was living quietly and trying to stay out of sight. I’m just wondering when all the CIA files about the attempts to kill Castro will be opened up-are they accessible under the FOI act? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/24 "2006-07-03T15:21:35Z")
Re the “magic bullet” thing: I once heard a guy lay out a very plausible scenario that involved a second shooter; the gun in use was a compressed air or gas powered weapon and the bullet was fabricated from dry ice—it would have been hard enough to do the deed and would then melt, presumably before it was discovered. I didn’t say I believed the story, but I did hear it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/25 "2006-07-03T15:49:17Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Re the “magic bullet” thing: I once heard a guy lay out a very plausible scenario that involved a second shooter; the gun in use was a compressed air or gas powered weapon and the bullet was fabricated from dry ice—it would have been hard enough to do the deed and would then melt, presumably before it was discovered. I didn’t say I believed the story, but I did hear it. But, even with the bullet missing/evaporated, wouldn’t that also leave a second wound? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/26 "2006-07-03T16:29:22Z")
Didn’t the Warren report settle that it was a determined case of suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/27 "2006-07-03T16:31:46Z")
_Mythbusters_ addressed the “ice-bullet” theory. Though they tried, they couldn’t make a frozen bullet durable enough to survive being fired from a rifle, let alone do lethal damage to a target. They didn’t try using an air-rifle, though I can’t see how that would make things better. If the ice-bullet was fired slowly enough to survive the acceleration, it would be too slow a projectile to be fired with any accuracy or power. i.e. it’s bullshit. May as well suggest JFK was killed by alien technology found in Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/28 "2006-07-03T18:46:13Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > But I still don’t understand why the Chicago Mob wanted Giancana dead-he was 'retired" from the Mob, and had lost all of his Havana properties. Yet the starnge survellence from the FBI? Why? And an eyewitness stated that all of the surveillance cars left early on the night of the hit-why? You’re _assuming_ he was completely retired from organized crime. You’re _assuming_ he was under considerable FBI surveillance on the word of witnesses of questionable trustworthiness. You’re _assuming_ that surveillance was in fact taken off when he was killed. And all that’s a far cry from tying him in to another murder for which there is already a rather logical and well-supported explanation. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/29 "2006-07-03T19:03:06Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > May as well suggest JFK was killed by alien technology found in Atlantis. !!! GODDAMMIT, WHO TOLD YOU . . . Never mind. Now I have to kill you. Sorry. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/30 "2006-07-03T19:37:08Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Re the “magic bullet” thing: I once heard a guy lay out a very plausible scenario that involved a second shooter; the gun in use was a compressed air or gas powered weapon and the bullet was fabricated from dry ice—it would have been hard enough to do the deed and would then melt, presumably before it was discovered. I didn’t say I believed the story, but I did hear it. Nah, JFK was bludgeoned to death with a frozen leg of lamb which was then cooked and served to the Warren Commission at a banquet. Bonus technical nitpick: a dry ice bullet wouldn’t melt; it would sublime (go from a solid to a gas rather than a liquid) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/31 "2006-07-03T22:54:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, even with the bullet missing/evaporated, wouldn’t that also leave a second wound? IIRC, the guy had that covered, but I don’t remember all the details—after all, it was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/32 "2006-07-03T23:00:59Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Given that J Edgar died in 1972\*, I tend to doubt that he had much to do with killing Sam Giancana in 1975. > \*Or at least that’s what they want us to believe! It’s simple, Zombie Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/33 "2006-07-03T23:12:12Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > It’s simple, Zombie Hoover. If anyone could rise from the grave and feed on human flesh, it would be Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/34 "2006-07-04T00:17:07Z")
And he’d do it in a dress. Cross-dressing Zombie Hoover! It’d make a hell of a band name. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/35 "2006-07-04T00:22:44Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > And he’d do it in a dress. Cross-dressing Zombie Hoover! It’d make a hell of a band name. OTOH, it’s hard to envision Hoover taking much of an interest in **BBBRRRRAAAAAIIIIIIHHHHHNNNNNZZZZ!!!** ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/36 "2006-07-04T09:27:20Z")
In the end, what’s it matter if the mob arranged the hit or the Cubans or whomever? Let’s start with a mob hit. The people who would have ordered the hit and carried it out are most likely dead by now. IAC, JFK’s death didn’t stop the persecution of the mob. Nor did Bobby’s death a few years later. So if we discovered hard proof that the mob was responsible for it, what would we do at this late of date? If the Cubans did it, well, pretty much no matter _when_ we figured it out, we’d go after Castro with both barrels. Awfully risky for a pissant nation like Cuba to try. After all, **we** failed at numerous attempts to whack Castro, so we were obviously out for blood, and if we got the barest _hint_ that Castro was behind it, we’d have no qualms about invading. If the CIA pulled the trigger, I gotta ask, why? Because they thought that JFK was a wimp? Heck, you could make the case that Carter was a bigger “wimp” than JFK and he’s still breathing. The Soviets? It was Kruschev who backed down over the Cuban Missile Crisis, not JFK. Killing him would be an act of war, so were we to find out that the Soviets had a hand in it, we’d be launching nukes in their direction. Again, waaay too risky. Space aliens. Why not do us all a favor and vaporize the entire the planet out of existence? Nazis. Okay, why? The US, via Operation Paperclip, had pretty much provided shelter for a number of war criminals, killing JFK could have caused those guys to suddenly wind up in the hands of the Israelis. It seems more like Oswald just got lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/37 "2006-07-04T09:49:39Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > In the end, what’s it matter if the mob arranged the hit or the Cubans or whomever? For me it’s more of a curiosity thing. There’s tons of speculation out there on the internet, and I’m toying with an idea for a short story about the assassination. To have a decent story, I need something that’s not totally off the wall… ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/38 "2006-07-04T09:59:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > For me it’s more of a curiosity thing. There’s tons of speculation out there on the internet, and I’m toying with an idea for a short story about the assassination. To have a decent story, I need something that’s not totally off the wall… Might I suggest you check out [_The Destruction of the Temple_ by Barry N. Malzberg](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671776967/sr=8-6/qid=1152006890/ref=sr_1_6/002-8615064-2234462?ie=UTF8) (he’s also written a number of short stories about the JFK assassination)? He pretty much runs through the various scenerios in his works, some times in rather surrealistic ways. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/39 "2006-07-04T12:42:54Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > Might I suggest you check out [_The Destruction of the Temple_ by Barry N. Malzberg](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671776967/sr=8-6/qid=1152006890/ref=sr_1_6/002-8615064-2234462?ie=UTF8) (he’s also written a number of short stories about the JFK assassination)? He pretty much runs through the various scenerios in his works, some times in rather surrealistic ways. Thanks. I’ll have to check that out sometime. The story I have in mind is probably going to be plain old vanilla fiction. It may well have a few “easter eggs” of veiled references to certain people or entities in it, but it won’t be overtly fantastic or sci-fi oriented. Got a couple of background questions pending on another, more narrowly tailored, messageboard. If I get the info I need, I may bang out the story later today. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/40 "2006-07-04T13:22:12Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Got a couple of background questions pending on another, more narrowly tailored, messageboard. [voice of Truman] :::_there are other messageboards?_:::: 😉 [/voice] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932.md?page=3)