# "JFK and SAM" New Light on Kennedy Assassination? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2006, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932 "2006-07-02T12:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/61 "2006-07-08T23:26:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I forget, who’s Jack Valanti? Valenti. He was a Johnson advisor who went on to become president of the MPAA (and introduced the G-PG-R-X rating system). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/62 "2006-07-08T23:31:14Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Valenti. He was a Johnson advisor who went on to become president of the MPAA (and introduced the G-PG-R-X rating system). Whuzzatgottado with the JFK assassination or Stone’s film? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/63 "2006-07-08T23:33:43Z")
The 1940 Census of the US is sealed and unavailable. Conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/64 "2006-07-08T23:38:33Z")
I suspect that if anything in those files might reflect badly on Lyndon B. Johnson, then they’re probably waiting for Ladybird to die before they release them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/65 "2006-07-08T23:38:36Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > The 1940 Census of the US is sealed and unavailable. 😕 Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/66 "2006-07-09T00:57:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 “The football” is a nickname for a briefcase full of emergency codes the President can use to call Strategic Air Command, identify himself, and start WW3. The Prez is followed around by a military officer tasked to carry “the football” (i.e. don’t fumble it) in case emergency military action is needed. In times of transition, sometimes the status and location of the football is disturbingly vague, as after JFK was killed and after Nixon resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/67 "2006-07-09T08:02:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Whuzzatgottado with the JFK assassination or Stone’s film? Most people in Hollywood dislike Valenti because of the MPAA and it’s whacked out way of deciding how a film is rated. Valenti also was rather vocal in saying that Stone was full of shit with his film about _JFK_. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/68 "2006-07-09T11:39:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by samclem > The 1940 Census of the US is sealed and unavailable. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Cite? [US Census Bureau](http://ask.census.gov/cgi-bin/askcensus.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=601&p_created=1091221264&p_sid=caxMG4ci&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NyZwX3Byb2RzPSZwX2NhdHM9JnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9NzI*&p_li=&p_topview=1) After a period of 72 years, copies of decennial census forms are available on microfilm for research at the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration in Washington, DC, at Archives regional centers, and at select Federal depository libraries throughout the United States. In addition, these records are available at various other libraries and research facilities throughout the United States.Currently, records are available for 1790 through 1930. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/69 "2006-07-09T13:11:26Z")
Well, at least I can think of a good, non-conspiratorial **reason** for keeping the census forms (as distinct from the statistics and analyses) under lock and key for 72 years. Who would fill out the form knowing anybody can go to any federal depository and research the details of your private life? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/70 "2006-07-09T15:12:39Z")
So I can’t get the details of Jack Ruby.Sam Giancan until 72 years after their death dates? AS far as identity theft goes-how often do elderly people get their identities stolen? I don’t suppose its easy to get credit cards for 70 year olds. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/71 "2006-07-11T00:12:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I don’t suppose its easy to get credit cards for 70 year olds. Why not? Retirees might have fixed incomes, but they have steady incomes for life. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/72 "2006-07-11T11:15:17Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I would like to read the FBI files on Giancana What makes you think you can’t? [http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/giancana.htm](http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/giancana.htm) > **[FBI Case Files arranged by Surnames](https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/fbi-files.html)** > > FBI Case Files Arranged by Individual's Surname AHSCA Subject Files Surnames A-H Surnames I-P Surnames Q-Z Additional Requests Files Miscellaneous Documents File Related Subjects Other Subjects AHSCA Subject Files A Aase, Jean Accardo, Anthony... Seriously, while there might be grounds for saying that not everything that could be released has been, blanket complaints about closed files don’t count for much unless they’re combined with some awareness of what has actually already been released. Otherwise it just looks like uninformed handwaving. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/73 "2006-07-12T21:37:36Z")
> [@DonutSprinkle](#): > > Over the years, I have usually seen just segments of the Zapruder film. Jackie crawling over the trunk toward the back of the car, to get away I supposed. Quite a natural reaction, but it still bothered me for reasons I can’t quite explain. > > But lately I have seen more of the film. ([Here’s a copy on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx7YEAdBWhQ) .) When you watch more of it, it’s plain (at least to me) that she is trying to help the Secret Service man on board to assist her husband. Makes me feel a lot better. Saw an interview of the secret service man she was reaching toward. He said she was trying to reach a piece of her husbands skull. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/74 "2006-07-12T21:51:16Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > When I was in high school, I stumbled upon a book by Maj. Donald Kehoe. I read and just _knew_ that flying saucers were real. He opened my eyes. > > Then I grew up. I stumjbled through the net one day and read an article about a long drawn out law suit over freedom of information had been settled over the objections of Gov. attys. I had to look it up immediately. It was about flying saucers. It was called the Disclosure Project. Turned out to be a ufo panel. Not what I expected. I needed some great revelations and got radar blips. [http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm](http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm) I guess saucers aren’t dead yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/75 "2006-07-13T07:09:48Z")
> [@Least Original User Name Ever](#): > > I stumjbled through the net one day and read an article about a long drawn out law suit over freedom of information had been settled over the objections of Gov. attys. I had to look it up immediately. It was about flying saucers. It was called the Disclosure Project. Turned out to be a ufo panel. Not what I expected. I needed some great revelations and got radar blips. [http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm](http://www.netro.ca/disclosure/npccmenu.htm) > I guess saucers aren’t dead yet. You should read [_Unconventional Flying Objects_](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1571740279/102-3896442-5388969?v=glance&n=283155) it’s a NASA scientist’s research into the area of UFOs. No claims as to how something like FTL would work, but lot’s of mathmatical formulas which explain that if they _are_ real, what kind of G forces they would be experiencing, and experiments with things that duplicate (as near as possible) some of the things that ETs have been seen to do. Doesn’t convince me that we’re necessarily being visited by aliens, but fascinating none the less (and none of the annoying, “Oh, they’ve come to save us and teach us how to live in peace and harmony!” crap, either). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/76 "2006-07-23T01:31:36Z")
From [_Friday,_](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034530988X/sr=8-1/qid=1153617900/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-9161653-5447225?ie=UTF8) by Robert Heinlein (Friday’s boss has assigned her to do historical/scientific research to evaluate conspiracy-theory explanations of historical outbreaks of the Black Death): > [@](#): > > “. . . Boss, there ain’t no such animal as a well-documented conspiracy. Or sometimes too well documented but the documents contradict each other. If a conspiracy happened quite some time ago, a generation or longer, it becomes quite impossible to establish the truth. Have you ever heard of John F. Kennedy?” > > “Yes. Chief of state in the middle twentieth century of the Federation then occupying the land between Canada – British Canada and Quebec – and the Kingdom of Mexico. He was assassinated.” > > “That’s the man. Killed in front of hundreds of witnesses and every aspect, before, during, and after, heavily documented. All that mountain of evidence adds up to is this: Nobody knows who shot him, how many shot him, how many times he was shot, who did it, why it was done, and who was involved in the conspiracy if there was a conspiracy. It isn’t even possible to say whether the murder plot was foreign or domestic. . . .” ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/77 "2006-07-23T12:03:13Z")
> [@DonutSprinkle](#): > > But lately I have seen more of the film. ([Here’s a copy on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx7YEAdBWhQ) .) When you watch more of it, it’s plain (at least to me) that she is trying to help the Secret Service man on board to assist her husband. Makes me feel a lot better. Actually, there was a grimmer explanation. She was retrieving part of his skull that had blow off. She later handed it to one of the surgeons at Parkland Hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/78 "2006-07-23T12:06:27Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So I can’t get the details of Jack Ruby.Sam Giancan until 72 years after their death dates?. You can’t get his U.S. census listings (or anyone else’s) until 72 years after the census was taken. There are plenty of other sources from which to get information about a person. (I know, I’m a professional genealogist.) ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/79 "2006-07-23T12:12:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I guess we just have to be patient . . . but why were the records sealed in the first place?! If there was no conspiracy, how could publication of them affect national security?! No one is saying anything about “national security”. An investigation as broad as the Kennedy assassination will generate a lot of false leads that are potentially slanderous allegations about living persons; confidential but noncontroversial personal data about living persons; and the names of confidential sources (for example, about organized crime) that are still living. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932/80 "2006-07-23T14:47:14Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > In the end, what’s it matter if the mob arranged the hit or the Cubans or whomever? > . The government was changed, perhaps substantially, by somebody’s murder. This may matter to some. > [@Tuckerfan](#): > > If the CIA pulled the trigger, I gotta ask, why? Because they thought that JFK was a wimp? Heck, you could make the case that Carter was a bigger “wimp” than JFK and he’s still breathing… The CIA has better things to do than to go around killing wimps. The CIA is an organization of career men that may, at times, kill people to further their agenda. I won’t go into rumors, books, facts, testimony, because I don’t have time now, but 1. JFK was alleged to have promised to splinter the org into thousands of pieces. They had a lot, lot of money and power then, and, a group of government-destabilizing-killers-assassins would perhaps not be interested in losing hundreds of millions of dollars at the whim of one person that made them the whipping boy in his foul up which was the Bay of Pigs. 1. He, depending on the slant you want to put on the Bay of Pigs biz, betrayed a few thousand people that he sent to overthrow another government. Then, he \*wimped \*out. Many died because of the his failures. Right or wrong, one can see that this may make a lot of people angry. Power, money, death, betrayal. Fair motives if you want to look for modus operandi in a murder. hh [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-and-sam-new-light-on-kennedy-assassination/362932.md?page=5)