# JFK conspiracy theories that can't be just laughed off **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721 "2003-02-17T21:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/41 "2003-02-21T15:22:43Z")
**mystic** , thank you for confirming my humanity, but I am still none the wiser as to what a “freeper” is. > [@](#): > > But seriously, you cannot give one example of something in JFK that was counterfactual. I can’t, but [this](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfkmovie.htm) can (thanks again to **minty g** ). > [@](#): > > Every other detail in JFK I have found in one of the assassination books… …on which Stone based the film. _Response composed by unit5633#46755@1455.21.2.2003 &$english language/briteng dialect_cc:67primeunits734892\*\*{target tracking initiated} usname mystic2311status: orange\*\*surveillance level 4 authorised 4777833error88++awaiting response\* ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/42 "2003-02-21T19:03:02Z")
**Sentient** , a “freeper” is a regular of the Free Republic web site/message boards. [www.freerepublic.com](http://www.freerepublic.com) ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/43 "2003-02-21T19:22:57Z")
…But please, **Sentient** , don’t mention us over there, eh? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/44 "2003-02-21T21:49:28Z")
I’m not a conspiracy buff, but I know one - David Lifton ([Best Evidence](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0451175735/qid=1045864038/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-1437972-9246216?v=glance&s=books)) is a friend of my aunt’s. Since I’m old enough to remember the Cold War atmosphere of the early 1960s, the thing that’s always puzzled me about Oswald was that the U.S. government didn’t know where he was, at pretty much every moment of every day, after his return from Russia. People just didn’t _do_ that, then. That he’d have the freedom to go about his life here, let alone buy a rifle and stake out a position above the President’s motorcade route, just boggles my mind. What’s the word on this, conspiracy debunkers? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/45 "2003-02-21T22:48:52Z")
Actually, quite a few people _did_ defect to the Soviet Union and back. Moreover, the government _did_ keep track of Oswald. The FBI kept fairly regular tabs on him, though they lost track of him for a while after he moved from New Orleans to Dallas. Oswald actually called the FBI agent assigned to his case not long before the assassination to tell him to leave his wife alone. But the general conclusion was that Oswald was a nutty Marxist, not a spy, so there was no high priority on watching him. If they’d known about the rifle and handgun, maybe they would have paid a bit more attention, but hey, it’s Texas. It’s hardly unusual for a guy to have a couple guns. Besides, they didn’t know–Oswald bought the guns via mail order under a fake name. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/46 "2003-02-23T14:19:32Z")
If anyone bothered to read the details of the conspiracy theory which claims Bush was partially responsible for the assassination of JFK. They would have found (w/ cites)that indeed Oswald pulled the trigger. They would have found (w/cites) that Oswald was also recruited by GHWB in 1961 as an operative for the CIA to infiltrate Cuba as a “Soviet” sympathizer. They would have also found (w/cites) that when Kennedy was elected (to the shock and surprise of the republican party) he would not agree to the military invasion of Cuba. JFK finally agreed after being pressured, but when the Bay of Pigs turned disaster, JFK was held responsible due to his lack of support for the operation. anyway…I’m not going any further w/ this. I just read a book, an autobiography of GHWB, complete with legitimate sources and cites from mostly government documents. I thought the author presented a well explained and factually supported theory. Most of his evidence is not disputable. It is a matter of public record. He did a good job in tying it all together. Whether the theory is true or not, is beside the point…the evidence presented is overwhelming and very interesting. ie: Jack Ruby was employed by Richard Nixon as private security in the 1940’s-50’s. ie: Richard Nixon was nominated as a candidate by and heavily supported financially by the Bush family. ie: GHWB was in Dallas the day Kennedy was killed…He later claimed he didn’t remember where he was on that day…(that’s a damned lie and you know it!) So, if coincidence explains these and many, many, more pieces of evidence used to support the claim…that’s fine, just laugh it off. Oh…here’s another one you can just laugh off. Dubya, was in business years ago with Salem Bin Laden (Osama’s bro.). Of course, ya know Salem died in a plane crash in Texas when 41 was pres. So it really doesn’t matter now does it. Damn…that’s funny! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/47 "2003-02-23T17:01:17Z")
Long time lurker here. Does anyone remember that thread **Libertarian** posted about hyper-skepticism? He used as an example the “in the butt, Bob” UL from the Newlywed Game, which he claimed to have seen when it happened. Everyone said he was wrong, that it didn’t exist, and that he just imagined he did. Finally, it was confirmed on national television and everyone but Lib was proved wrong… We never did get to the actual debate though, that being “Are we too skeptical?” I haven’t seen or read anything on the JFK assassination in years, so I don’t remember everything clearly enough to comment. I’m not trying to say anything about the conspiracy. I’m saying that there is a heavy dose of condescension in some of the skeptical dopers posts. Remember, conspiracy nuts have biased their minds to believe any conspiracy they hear, but it makes no more sense to bias yourself _against_ every single theory out there that goes against the grain. I’m not saying don’t debunk. Go ahead. Fight the ignorance. Most of you seem pretty knowledgable so you probably know more about the case than I do. But don’t act like the people who want some of the theories investigated are too stupid or crazy to grasp the facts. That’s all I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/48 "2003-02-23T18:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl of the CC \* > But don’t act like the people who want some of the theories investigated are too stupid or crazy to grasp the facts. That’s all I’m saying. I assume you’re addressing me here. If I thought the people I’ve responded to were “too stupid or crazy to grasp the facts,” I wouldn’t have bothered to respond in the first place. (Note that I’m _not_ getting involved in the Bush claim, which is one of the looniest assassination theories I’ve heard in a long time.) But if you’re going to make a claim for a conspiracy, amigo, it takes a hell of a lot more than just popping into a forum and saying “Well what about _x_?” That is most especially true when the actual facts show that _x_ is a crock, and I’ve repeatedly pointed to the facts that demonstrate the falsity or irrelevance of those claims. If you consider that “condescension,” tough luck. This is the Straight Dope, not a support group for conspiracy-minded people whose feelings get hurt when their claims are challenged or refuted. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/49 "2003-02-24T00:19:46Z")
You know what I think would be cool? An annotated edition of The Big Book of Conspiracies, which tells of any evidence (or lack thereof) of any of the assertions found within. I think it’d be keen, especially the spins given to things that are coincidences until proven otherwise. 🙂 But it’s also neat to see some classic spin tactics actually being used, like the fact that they describe the death of the head of the Warren Commission in a plane crash as “mysterious.” Well, duh; as Snopes point out, ALL plane crashes are mysterious, since they don’t usually happen! Oh, and didja know that a young Bill Clinton apparently drove that man to the airport for his fatal flight? Oooo, scary! ---
**Author:** ![Henry\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d78d45/32.png) [@Henry\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry_B)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/50 "2003-02-24T02:33:51Z")
Let’s assume that there were 10 (or what ever number) of real, major concpiracies in the 20th century. Let’s assume that 6 gets caught. What happens to the other 4? - First there is the scepsis of yhe “official truth”. There always is. - Then comes some evidence that there is a concpiracy. - Then begins the fabrication of seeminly right evidence, that can be shown false afterwards. (These things can be made beforehand if something goes wrong). - After this that 90% is shown to be “not a concpicy evidence, but very logical explanations”, comes the last blow for the case. = the luna-guys with as many teories as there are lunatics. - Then the case is re-opened, closed, re-opened, closed. The JFK assassination was very chocking, but I would not be suprised if the truth would be this or that. Btw. it was the first time I heard about George De Mohrenschildt. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/51 "2003-02-24T04:52:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SentientMeat \* > \*\*What the hell is a “Freeper”?! \*\* [http://www.freerepublic.com/](http://www.freerepublic.com/) Apparently it is someone who agrees with whatever their right wing conservative republican party says is so. You know “Read my lips”, and the freepers yell he didn’t say that. or GHWB claimed he didn’t remember being in Dallas when Kennedy was killed and the freepers say, he could’ve just forgot. or GHWB claims that he had no knowledge of the Iran contra dealings…and gets away w/ it. or Reagan/Bush deny making a deal w/ Ayatollah Khomeni to release the hostages in exchange for weapons despite testimony by witnesses that put Bush there at the time. They were lying of course. or John Hinkley is found not guilty (by reason of insanity) for attempted assassination of a US President, he was friends w/ the G. Bush & family…which according to the freepers is just a coincidence. or Richard Nixon is pardoned by his VP…hey, what he did wasn’t that bad anyway! or the fact that Enron was GWB largest financial backer when he ran & lost his senate bid. What’s that got to do with anything, right. or…or…etc. You know, the head in the sand syndrome…It’s my party and damn it, I don’t believe it, it’s all rumors and lies. You’re just crazy, you damned conspiracy nut. Well, guess what? I may be crazy, and I may be a conspiracy nut (I’m not, but whatever) That doesn’t change the facts of the matter. There are way too many coincidences in the Bush family closet of skeletons to just dismiss all of them. I think most people don’t actually realize just how long these people have been in positions of power in this country. IIRC…both the George and Barbara Bush can trace their lineage to the Mayflower…and from then til now, their families have been in the thick of things. Not to say that is good or bad, just a means to an end. AND ample opportunity for numerous coincidental occurrences. Just call me a skeptic at heart. When Ollie North said, “I don’t recall”…I kinda had my doubts, okay. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/52 "2003-02-24T06:35:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by t-keela \* > \*\*[http://www.freerepublic.com/](http://www.freerepublic.com/) > > Apparently it is someone who agrees with whatever their right wing conservative republican party says is so. > > You know “Read my lips”, and the freepers yell he didn’t say that. > \*\* Wait, how can they claim he didn’t say that? He said it on national television in front of a huge live audience! Surely you mean that they deny that his statement meant what his political enemies say it meant, right? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/53 "2003-02-24T07:28:43Z")
correct ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721/54 "2003-02-24T07:33:37Z")
Sorry 'bout that…correct, they will often say, “he only raised the old taxes, so he actually kept his word”…or some other similar BS [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-conspiracy-theories-that-cant-be-just-laughed-off/155721.md?page=2)