# JFK fatal head shot **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 24, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117 "2013-10-24T15:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/101 "2013-10-28T16:24:51Z")
Or, Oswald was going to take the shot as Kennedy approached, but panicked and wasn’t able to calm down enough to aim properly until after the limo made the turn. Think of it this way. You’re sitting up in the sniper’s nest waiting for the limo. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. It seems like hours. You check your watch. It’s been five minutes. You wait and wait and wait. Suddenly the limo is there! You scramble for your rifle, breathing hard. Where is it? You’ve just got a few seconds! Ack, he’s around the corner! OK…Blam! Missed! Blam! Did I do it? Blam! OK, that worked. Now run! Oswald took three shots, a competent shooter could have done it in one. Oswald wasn’t a great shot. But you don’t have to be a great shot to hit a slow-moving target from 100 yards. Even a really crappy shooter can do it if they have three chances. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/102 "2013-10-28T16:48:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Seriously, go to Dallas, climb up into the sniper’s nest in the book depository, and then tell me how hard it would be to shoot Kennedy from there. It wasn’t hard. it was easy. I stood on the “X” in the street (red light) and looked back. It’s really a short distance for a high-powered rifle. My brother and I took turns shooting my scoped 22 (stock Ruger 10/22 w Tasco scope) at targets the size of a nickel at 50 yds. We’d usually have one ragged hole about that size when we were finished. If you’re aiming at someone’s head at about half again that distance with a more accurate, flatter-shooting scoped rifle with likely a better scope, it gives you a LOT of leeway for movement. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/103 "2013-10-28T17:43:00Z")
I’m kind of disappointed in the comments about how easy it is to make these shots. I fired a rifle infrequently when I was much younger and I thought I had exceptional aim for someone with minimal experience. Now you’re telling me anyone could make these shots and I was just average. This really sucks for me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/104 "2013-10-28T23:09:40Z")
Years and years ago, some friends and I set up a re-creation (of sorts) with a pumpkin in a wagon, at about the right distance and moving at about the right speed. It really isn’t that hard to make that shot. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/105 "2013-10-28T23:12:48Z")
And people say live theater is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/106 "2013-10-29T00:18:19Z")
“Bored and insecure men will loose arrows at dust-motes.” Fritz Leiber. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/107 "2013-10-29T00:31:39Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > A picture being worth a thousands words, there’s the first person shooter JFK:Reloaded where you can take the shot yourself. It’s a remarkably easy shot. Do you get the “Headshot” sound effect from Unreal Tournament when you make that shot? Now I’m wondering how much outrage you could get out of the cable news networks if you uploaded something like the Zapruder film with the appropriate sound effects (say the headshot from UT) to Youtube and managed to keep it up there. ---
**Author:** ![snorlax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@snorlax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snorlax)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/108 "2013-10-29T13:01:56Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Now I’m wondering how much outrage you could get out of the cable news networks if you uploaded something like the Zapruder film with the appropriate sound effects (say the headshot from UT) to Youtube and managed to keep it up there. I can’t check now because I’m at work - but I recall seeing JFK:Reloaded videos on YouTube where they had gotten “funny” results by, for example, shooting the limo driver so the car would speed out of control and eventually flip over. These were accompanied by Benny Hill style music. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/109 "2013-10-29T17:15:10Z")
> [@wedgehed](#): > > I would think that taking the shot as the motorcade approached him would have made Oswald an almost immediate target for return fire by the Secret Service. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Plus the windshield and the bubble-top crossbar and John Connally are all in the way of a head-on shot. Waiting until after the turn is easier. > [@jtgain](#): > > That and the moving car disrupts the accuracy of the shot. (Making it too high or too low by the millisecond) By shooting when he actually did, it is a very steady target simply moving away at slow speed. I’m sure Oswald went up to the 6th floor prior to the actual shooting and considered this. In addition, if Oswald takes the shot as they approach, and he misses, they don’t take that turn down Elm…they would just speed up and continue straight down Houston and Oswald has no target. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/110 "2013-10-29T19:27:38Z")
Something I meant to add earlier Elm street slopes downward away from the Book Depository and this gives another advantage to the shooter. The rifle has to move less to stay on target as the slope makes the relative motion of the car to the shooter less. Oswald chose his spot well. **Capt of the Reavers** ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/111 "2013-10-29T19:31:09Z")
He didn’t choose that spot he just got lucky that the motorcade happened to be going by where he worked ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/112 "2013-10-29T19:34:48Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > He didn’t choose that spot he just got lucky that the motorcade happened to be going by where he worked He knew, like most in Dallas, that the motorcade would be coming through Dealey Plaza. That was news several days before the visit. The bend around onto Elm, instead of straight down the center road, was a last-minute change that brought Kennedy within easy target range. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/113 "2013-10-29T20:21:22Z")
> [@Avulsed Brainstem](#): > > He knew, like most in Dallas, that the motorcade would be coming through Dealey Plaza. That was news several days before the visit. The bend around onto Elm, instead of straight down the center road, was a last-minute change that brought Kennedy within easy target range. No, that’s not correct. The turns onto Houston and Elm were planned at the same time the drive down Main was planned. The reason is that if you’re on Main and want to go north on Stemmons Frwy, Main St doesn’t connect - you have to make the turn onto Houston and Elm to get to Stemmons. Kennedy’s next stop was supposed to be at the Trade Mart, which is north on Stemmons. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/114 "2013-10-29T20:35:07Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > No, that’s not correct. The turns onto Houston and Elm were planned at the same time the drive down Main was planned. I’ll concede the point. I thought there was discussion of the various routes and the turn onto Houston and then Elm was added late in the plan to bring the motorcade past more people, but I can’t lay a finger on the passage. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/115 "2013-10-29T21:42:20Z")
> [@Avulsed Brainstem](#): > > I’ll concede the point. I thought there was discussion of the various routes and the turn onto Houston and then Elm was added late in the plan to bring the motorcade past more people, but I can’t lay a finger on the passage. It’s a common claim of conspiracy theorists - they say that the route was changed at the last minute to put the route right in front of the book depository. As evidence, they produce a map published in a local newspaper (I think it was Ft Worth) that shows a crude line for Main St connecting to a crude line for Stemmons. The problem with that is this map was small and fairly crude, so the Houston-Elm corner of it would be too small to even notice. However, maps published in a larger format in Dallas at the same time do show the Houston-Elm turns. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/116 "2013-10-29T22:28:04Z")
Elm street is the way to get on I-35/Stemmons FWY. IIRC in 63’ Houston Ave was two way but it is shown as one way on Google Maps today but either way the motorcade drove from Main to Elm. [https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dealey+Plaza,+400+Main+St,+Dallas,+Texas+75201&hl=en&sll=31.168934,-100.076842&sspn=16.712492,28.54248&t=h&geocode=FUUq9AEd5tE6-g&hnear=Dealey+Plaza,+400+Main+St,+Dallas,+Texas+75201&z=17](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dealey+Plaza,+400+Main+St,+Dallas,+Texas+75201&hl=en&sll=31.168934,-100.076842&sspn=16.712492,28.54248&t=h&geocode=FUUq9AEd5tE6-g&hnear=Dealey+Plaza,+400+Main+St,+Dallas,+Texas+75201&z=17) When I lived in Dallas I went there many times. **Capt of the Reavers** ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/117 "2013-10-29T22:46:32Z")
I don’t read CT material, but I may have picked it up from a debunking discussion. it’s just plausible enough that the alternate route takes passes more onlookers, but I don’t really have any issue with it either way. Just for giggles, though, what would have stopped the motorcade from going down Main and crossing onto Elm to head to the Trade Center, given that they weren’t bound by the traffic laws of mere mortals? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/118 "2013-10-29T22:54:42Z")
> [@Avulsed Brainstem](#): > > I don’t read CT material, but I may have picked it up from a debunking discussion. it’s just plausible enough that the alternate route takes passes more onlookers, but I don’t really have any issue with it either way. > > Just for giggles, though, what would have stopped the motorcade from going down Main and crossing onto Elm to head to the Trade Center, given that they weren’t bound by the traffic laws of mere mortals? I am not exactly sure what you are asking but, you cannot physically get onto Stemmons from Main, you have to get on ELM which is parallel. **Capt** ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/119 "2013-10-29T23:04:10Z")
> [@The Reaver](#): > > I am not exactly sure what you are asking but, you cannot physically get onto Stemmons from Main, you have to get on ELM which is parallel. Looking at the map, it seems as if you can make a lane-change onto Elm/Stemmons. While that move would be normally illegal then and now, and today would get you anything from a finger to a couple of shots to a ticket to a coffin, was it possible for a motorcade to make that lane-change in 1963? Or was the only physically possible route up and around on Elm? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Kirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117/120 "2013-10-29T23:12:23Z")
> [@Avulsed Brainstem](#): > > Looking at the map, it seems as if you can make a lane-change onto Elm/Stemmons. While that move would be normally illegal then and now, and today would get you anything from a finger to a couple of shots to a ticket to a coffin, was it possible for a motorcade to make that lane-change in 1963? Or was the only physically possible route up and around on Elm? There is only a curb dividing Elm and Main at the entrance to Stemmons and a small one at that but generally speaking Heads of State rarely skip over curbs. In an emergency all bets are off. What I am getting at is this, if you are going to do a parade in downtown Dallas and then plan on going north on Stemmons, Elm street is the way to go. It is the street you enter the FWY from. On the map you can go to street view and put yourself by the entrance ramp, take a look around you will see what I mean. **Capt of the Reavers** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfk-fatal-head-shot/672117.md?page=7)