Frankd6 and Stoidela,very funny!People magazines salutes celebrities who have a pact with satan:next up:rosanne!
[[Personally, I found Phil Hartman’s death much more tragic. I felt much closer to Phil Hartman because he was very very funny. Hartman accomplished something on his own. ]]
“Contingency fee? No, money down!”
[[His funeral wasn’t televised (wanna take bets on whether JFK, Jr.'s will be?) and he wasn’t cannonized.]]
There is little doubt that John junior would not have wanted that.
[[What is (was) JonJon famous for? Being the son of JFK and publishing a magazine. That’s about half a step removed from Steve Forbes. What did he do for himself? He used his family’s money (of dubious origins) to start his magazine. I just don’t see it.]]
He is a person who became famous for being where he was when he was. The image of that little boy saluting as his father’s casket rolled by (on, IIRC, his birthday, no less) was an incredibly moving moment, and he became a part of our national consciousness.
Maybe next time people will think twice about taking a frigging plane to a place you can quite readily drive to from where you are.
And, quite likely, JFK Jr. saluting his father’s casket was a moment prompted by his mother; but far be it from me to criticize people for being taken in by ersatz sentimentality.
OOOPS! I stand corrected, Melin I must have missed the loving tribute for the the women. Was it before or after the tums commerical?
I’ve just learned that Jon-Jon was “the best and brightest of his generation” – that lets me off the hook and I can stand under his mighty shadow forever. What exactly did he do anyway?
You think I should show more compassion? Hey, I’m no Jon-Jon Kennedy!
I just really hope that Elton John wasn’t a close personal friend. Not sure if I can stand another version of Candle in the Wind. The paper here notes he was “the crown prince of America.” Maybe the Franklin Mint plate will be ready for Christmas. I can hardly wait.
I just hope to God they don’t name a Beanie Baby after him.
As far as the Kennedys go, I generally do not have very much positive to say about them. History has already been very unkind to the Kennedy clan. There is much to be critical about, especially from someone with my political leanings.
That being said, I can’t help but have a gut level reaction, similar to Melin’s.
I was born in 1959. JFK was the first president I ever knew. My earliest clear childhood memories are of JFK’s assasisnation, and the ensueing funeral. It left a very deep impression on me as a child.
My father deeply admired and supported JFK. I’ve never really talked to him about how JFK’s death affected him, but I know that he decorated our home with two artifacts directly linked to JFK’s death. One was a reproduction of a political cartoon known as the “Grieving Lincoln,” a moving renderning of the Lincoln memorial, but with Abe weeping with his head in his hands. He had that framed and hung in our den.
The other was a recreation of the picture of JKF jr. saluting his father’s casket as an oil painting. This was hung in the bedroom I shared with my brothers. It hung there for the next 20 or so years while I lived at home, and stayed in that same room.
That haunting image was literally an icon of my childhood.
So regardless of how I feel about the Kennedys socially, politically, or morally, there is some deep resonation that the boy in the picture that hung in my room is gone. Its hard to put into words what that picture represents for me, or my father, or my family, but its a connection to my past that is almost cultural. How many people who lived at that time don’t get into conversations about what they were doing when they heard that JFK had been shot?
Excuse me for blithering. But this is an event that connects me to my past in a very profound way. I could give a rat’s behind about all the other trappings. But every night as I went to sleep, I saw that picture of Jon-jon saluting. His death (for it is most likely that indeed he is dead) feels like it shuts a door in my life.
It really doesn’t make sense. But that’s how I feel.
SoxFan59
JFK Jr. was by all accounts an OK guy who lived a life of unavoidable celebrity and handled it a bit better than various uncles, aunts and cousins.
His major life contributions were some People material and George. But those are naturally amplified by his inherited place in the dogpile. While I generally fall on a different spot on the political compass than Kennedys (and experience a visceral reaction to some of them), I’ll give him credit for being a class act (and, if you don’t pay much attention to politics you may not realize that he’d done a little bit of subtle wriggling away from the clan’s knee-jerk left-wing approach to life).
Nevertheless, it being close to two days now since the crash, I think (and would hope I’m wrong) that it is safe to say he’s dead and gone.
Observations:
Yes, it must have been a terribly slow news day. Even taking into consideration his unique celebrity, maybe fifteen minutes of national news and a hastily cobbled together hour special; but all day and nothing else? Hell, they returned to regular programming, with bulletins galore of course, when Reagan was shot.
No, it won’t affect my life or the lives of those around me at all. Just as all the actors in my life successfully missed the general keening and wailing about Dianna, this too shall pass (quickly).
Now, for those in the know who want to stay abreast of things, I can tell you that they’re already working the case over at alt.conspiracy.jfk. One poster’s got it pegged to an altitude-triggered bomb, while another is working the DEA angle (Gee, you think this board is active; I went to look back at somebody’s rant on that newsgroup about some nearby particle accelerator blowing the plane up (?) and the chain, since the time I started typing this, had pushed that post too many scrolls away to screw with). I haven’t yet seen one pushing the Hillary blows away the competition for NY Senator thing yet, but I’m sure some close observer will bring that to light.
Yeah, it’s an unfortunate thing - apparent nice guy celebrity and bride and sis-in-law die young. And his persona was such that there’s a national reverberation.
But it’s not a National Tragedy.
[[And, quite likely, JFK Jr. saluting his father’s casket was a moment prompted by his mother; but far be it from me to criticize people for being taken in by ersatz sentimentality.]] PLD
Ersatz? Hardly. He was a three year old, so obviously he was told to salute. But it was still a moving image and a tragic situation for the poor little guy and his mother.
Friend of mine keeps coming back to Carolyn’s parents, and how deeply angry they must certainly be. She speculates, and she probably has it right, that there was must discussion and concern about John’s piloting ability. Now to have lost 2 out of 3 of their children in one completely unnecessary accident must be driving them mad with grief and rage. (And by unnecessary, I am referring to the fact that from what I’ve read, John’s choice to fly was, at best, ill-conceived. It seems there were many factors that should have made him think three times about making that flight. Macho confidence and a daredevil attitude killed them.)
Stoidela
Boycott shampoo! Demand REAL poo!
Would the press have wasted all that air time reporting nothing (and you all have to admit that very little news was reported) if David Eisenhower, Lynda Bird Johnson, Julie Nixon, Amy Carter, or Ron Reagan had been reported missing?
If you take out all the JFK Jr. is famous, “Crown Prince of America” BS, the fact of the matter is that a guy who was a minimally experienced pilot got in over his head and murdered two people. I have read that two pilots from the same airport that JFK Jr. took off from, refused to make the same trip, the same night, due to poor flying conditions and both of these individuals had much more flying experience than JFK Jr.
Now I’m not saying that JFK Jr. held a gun to the heads of those two sisters and ordered them on that plane, but when I take in everything that I have heard, it sounds like a total error in judgment by JFK Jr. that got three people killed.
Hopefully, improved private pilot airplane safety will be the ‘take home’ that people get from this unnecessary loss of human life, but no matter what, I still have a bad taste in my mouth knowing that this should not have happened and barring airplane malfunction, it was JFK Jr.’s fault.
The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don’t have it.
George Bernard Shaw
No. It will make me think to check the weather more, brush up on my IFR skills, perhaps file a flight plan if VFR to save search efforts and enhance survival chances. Flying is as safe as the PIC makes it, I hope that this does not lead to more knee jerk regulations. IFR required at night, mandatory VFR flight plans (shudder) etc.
Oblio
A point in every direction is like no point at all
The Secret Service agent charged with protecting JFK Jr. in the White House is now living in Columbus, and as of late has been telling stories about him to the news. One was about the salute. Turns out that a few hours before the funeral, the man was basically babysitting Jon-jon so that Jackie could have an hour or two to break down before she had to be back together for the funeral. They were in some room in the White House, and an Army Captain walked by. Jon-jon gave the Captain a salute, but with the left hand. The agent said “That’s a wonderful way to show respect, but to do it properly, you have to do it with the other hand.” The agent showed Jon-jon how to salute properly, and forgot about the incident.
Then came the funeral. As the casket went by, Jackie supposedly leaned down and told Jon-jon to say goodbye to his father, and he surprised everyone with the salute that the agent taught him. The agent was there, and during the interview he said that he wept like a baby when he saw Jon-jon’s salute.
I’m not sure if this is a true story, or if this old man was exaggerating out of sentimentality. It’s still an excellent story.
He also told another one about how a day or so after JFK was murdered, he was lifting Jon-jon up so he could drink at a water fountain, and a photographer came up and tried to take a picture. Jon-jon just looked at the photographer and said “Why are you taking my picture? My daddy just died.” That one brought the photographer to tears.
And I suppose in a nutshell, that’s why so much of America cares. And it’s probably generational. Those of us who remember are crying not so much for the 38 year old man, but for our memories of the little boy whose daddy’s death touched all of us. “What were you doing when you heard about JFK?” Anybody in this country over the age of five at the time can probably answer that question without thinking too hard about it. I was six, and I sure can.
-Melin
Is it??? Both planes had passed by Long Island and a surface-air-missile would obliterate a Piper so that finding any big pieces would be a futile effort. It would explain alot.
Jim Petty
A Snappy message should appear here
Fresh from hell, the REAL reason teh KEnnedies are dying off: Ted Kennedy sold the lives of his family to the devil after Chappaquidick (sp?) In return, he will live as long as other Kennedy’s keep getting offed.
Honestly, it is OK to be sad for anyone dying. However, the disgusting thing about the mourning are all of the people fabricating crocodile tears to prove that theyt are compassionate and all of the people joining in on the sentimentality to make money. Elton John comes to mind.
In the days to come the sscreeen will be full of actors, actresses and politicians dabbing a tear and sharing heartwarming stories.
Sometimes life imitates the movie “Heathers”
quote:
“Why are you taking my picture? My daddy just died.”
And I suppose in a nutshell, that’s why so much of America cares. And it’s probably generational. Those of us who remember are crying not so much for the 38 year old man, but for our memories of the little boy whose daddy’s death touched all of us. “What were you doing when you heard about JFK?” Anybody in this country over the age of five at the time can probably answer that question without thinking too hard about it. I was six, and I sure can.
-Melin>>>>>>
Agreed, Melin. I was only a year older than jon-jon, and, as my earlier post stated, images of him saluting his father’s casket were part of my life for as long as I lived with my parents.
I believe it is generational. A friend of mine and i were talking about only people who lived at that time refer to JFK jr as “jon-jon.”
i was only 4 years old at the time, but I have some very vivid memories. It was an event that shaped the psyche of our nation, like Pearl Harbor and the Moon Landing did. I will not weep for JFK jr, but I am affected by his passing in a deep way that the passing of other famous people, some of whom I deeply care for and respect, would not.
SoxFan59
“Its fiction, but all the facts are true!”
Stoidella mentioned the Bessett’s. I thought about the parents, too, but a friend of mine told me they were both dead already. If this is true, what a horror this must be for the remaining Bessett sister. Does anyone have the facts on the parents?
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
As I understand it the Bessette parents are living, but divorced. I think they both have remarried; I’m certain the mother has.
-Melin
tv sucks, newspapers suck, reporters suck, endless coverage of water and clouds on the east coast sucks, Dan Blather sucks, suck suck suck suck… did I mention tv sucks?
Kennedy had it coming, if he had kids they’d die too when they reach 40.
“I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.”
– Calvin and Hobbes