# JFK's faked wit **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575 "2014-06-11T23:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/21 "2014-06-14T19:02:08Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I reject the suggestion that accepting or rejecting duels is a measure of heroism. You don’t think that only a minority of people can stay calmly expecting being shot at? > [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I thought he accepted the one where he could choose the weapons, so he chose swords. When his challenger saw his reach advantage he recused himself. Lincoln made it a joke, which is equivalent to a refusal > [@](#): > > Lincoln stated that the weapons he wished to use would be “Cavalry Broadswords of the largest size”. He figured that he could easily disarm Shields using the swords, whereas pistols would most likely lead to one of their deaths, if not both. He also added that he wanted the duel to be carried out in a pit 10 feet wide by 12 feet deep with a large wooden plank dividing the square in which no man was allowed to step foot over. > > These “conditions” were designed not only to be ridiculous; but also to give Lincoln, who at 6’ 4” had longer legs and arms and towered over the much smaller Shields, a decided advantage. Lincoln hoped that these unorthodox conditions that gave him an almost unbeatable advantage would persuade Shields to withdraw the challenge and settle things in a more gentlemanly fashion. [http://www.failedsuccess.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/abraham\_lincoln\_duel/](http://www.failedsuccess.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/abraham_lincoln_duel/) I also recall reading about another case where he suggested to fight standing in pond 5 and a half feet deep. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/22 "2014-06-14T20:58:51Z")
There is another tale of Lincoln being given choice of weapons and selecting “cow pies at twenty paces.” ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/23 "2014-06-14T22:58:43Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > They might not know, but if they knew they would care. The prize rules do stipute the “author” as the recipient of the prize. In [another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=725378) one of my opponents wrote > [@](#): > > It isn’t FAIR!" > > What a baby. Do you suspect that the members of the Pulitzer Committee are babies? > [@UDS](#): > > I haven’t read the book, but for all I know it’s literary merit fully justifies the award of the prize. Because it is better than the other books you haven’t read? > [@mbh](#): > > There is another tale of Lincoln being given choice of weapons and selecting “cow pies at twenty paces.” What a great humorist! Just like the senator Al Franken. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/24 "2014-06-15T20:24:03Z")
An interesting story about JFK’s running mate and fellow fraud LBJ. He got a Silver star for nothing LBJ’s Lies About His War Record > **[LBJ's Lies About His War Record | History News Network](http://hnn.us/article/153)** > > Much to no one’s surprise perhaps, the more evidence that surfaces about Lyndon Johnson’s war record, the less there seems to it, according to two new reports filed on \ **Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/25 "2014-06-15T21:17:11Z") A lot of Churchill’s _History of the Second World War_ was ghosted by his researchers. Like JFK, he edited and supervised the end result, but not every word was his. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/26 "2014-06-16T04:12:26Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > A lot of Churchill’s _History of the Second World War_ was ghosted by his researchers. Like JFK, he edited and supervised the end result, but not every word was his. Not every? There is hardly single Kennedy’s word in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/27 "2014-06-16T12:52:27Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > A lot of Churchill’s _History of the Second World War_ was ghosted by his researchers. Like JFK, he edited and supervised the end result, but not every word was his. Winston has written an enormous book about himself and called it “The World Crisis”- Sir Samuel Hoare. (The Great war of course) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/28 "2014-06-16T15:24:18Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > Cecil Adams [had already written that JFK’s book, for which he got a Pulitzer Prize, was ghostwritten for him](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2478/did-john-f-kennedy-really-write-profiles-in-courage). > > However I remember reading somewhere that his clever responses on press-conferences had also been invented by someone else. That is when JFK was going to a press-conference to display his wit he already new the questions which will be asked and the clever answers he will give. > > Unfortunately I don’t remember the source of this knowledge. Anyone does? I’m always ready to believe the worst of any Kennedy, but even if this were true, it wouldn’t make JFK unique. Jimmy Fallon and David Letterman write very few of the jokes in their nightly monologues. Even the best known standup comics usually have teams of writers who come up with much of their best material. In the same way, most U.S. Presidents in recent memory have had teams of speechwriters to make them sound more eloquent, witty and erudite than they really were. JFK had them, Nixon had them, Reagan had them, and Obama has them now. I take it for granted that MANY of our recent presidents’most famous quotes were written by somebody else, and that doesn’t outrage me. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/29 "2014-06-16T20:03:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I’m always ready to believe the worst of any Kennedy, but even if this were true, it wouldn’t make JFK unique. > > Jimmy Fallon and David Letterman write very few of the jokes in their nightly monologues. Even the best known standup comics usually have teams of writers who come up with much of their best material. > > In the same way, most U.S. Presidents in recent memory have had teams of speechwriters to make them sound more eloquent, witty and erudite than they really were. JFK had them, Nixon had them, Reagan had them, and Obama has them now. I take it for granted that MANY of our recent presidents’most famous quotes were written by somebody else, and that doesn’t outrage me. G.K. Chesterton wrote a story “The Fall Of A Great Reputation.” It is about someone who hired a guy to go with him to social gatherings and ask questions or pose objections to which he had clever answers. Such things don’t destroy reputation any more? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/30 "2014-06-16T22:16:01Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > G.K. Chesterton wrote a story “The Fall Of A Great Reputation.” It is about someone who hired a guy to go with him to social gatherings and ask questions or pose objections to which he had clever answers. Such things don’t destroy reputation any more? Well, as I read the story, it’s Cholmondeliegh who’s the con artist, not Wimpole. Leaving that aside, however, I speak as a professional ghostwriter. I wrote speeches and articles for buisiness executives to give under their own name for more than 25 years. My role, essentially, was to save a client’s time. After a 20-minute talk, I was the one who did all the research, spent several hours putting everything into words, and then handed the end product back to the client to use, revise, or throw out entirely. If my words happened to be more eloquent or witty than they would have come up with by themselves, so be it. Here’s the difference between me and Cholmondeliegh, and between my clients and Wimpole. And this holds true for ALL ghostwriters like me. 1. I start by asking my clients what THEY want to say, not by just making stuff up and giving them a script. 2. They aren’t bound to my words. In fact, I had one client who had me write full-length speeches for him and would rarely use so much as a paragraph. After it happened several times, I asked why he even bothered to hire (and pay) me. He explained that I was his “thought-starter.” As I said earlier, Kennedy and Reagan had genuine wit, and knew how to use it for the best effect. But if you want a real example of prepared zingers look no further than Reagan’s “There you go again,” which he used a number of times, but always made sound spontaneous. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/31 "2014-06-17T14:29:26Z")
The real trick is for a writer to come up with clever remarks that actually SOUND like something the speaker really would say naturally. There are numerous great cerebral jokes that just wouldn’t work coming from Ronald Reagan, because they just wouldn’t sound natural coming from him. The same joke might work perfectly if delivered by JFK or Obama. But there are all sorts of folksy wisecracks thatr Reagan could deliver perfectly but would sound awkward or phony if delivered by JFK or Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/32 "2014-06-17T20:34:33Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Well, as I read the story, it’s Cholmondeliegh who’s the con artist, not Wimpole. OK, I did not state it accurately. The hired guy wrote the script. Wimpole lost his great reputation for the same thing which Kennedy did. > [@kunilou](#): > > Leaving that aside, however, I speak as a professional ghostwriter. I wrote speeches and articles for buisiness executives to give under their own name for more than 25 years. My role, essentially, was to save a client’s time. After a 20-minute talk, I was the one who did all the research, spent several hours putting everything into words, and then handed the end product back to the client to use, revise, or throw out entirely. If my words happened to be more eloquent or witty than they would have come up with by themselves, so be it. > > Here’s the difference between me and Cholmondeliegh, and between my clients and Wimpole. And this holds true for ALL ghostwriters like me. > > 1. I start by asking my clients what THEY want to say, not by just making stuff up and giving them a script. > > 2. They aren’t bound to my words. In fact, I had one client who had me write full-length speeches for him and would rarely use so much as a paragraph. After it happened several times, I asked why he even bothered to hire (and pay) me. He explained that I was his “thought-starter.” Sometimes these executives go to school to grab another degree. Someone helps them with their exams? > [@kunilou](#): > > As I said earlier, Kennedy and Reagan had genuine wit, and knew how to use it for the best effect. But if you want a real example of prepared zingers look no further than Reagan’s “There you go again,” which he used a number of times, but always made sound spontaneous. How do you know it was genuine? Reagan was an actor and got used to reading scripts. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/33 "2014-06-19T15:53:27Z")
This is not exactly what the OP was referring to, but in an interview with Chet Huntley and David Brinkley, JFK concludes by requesting that they “redo” some of the questions so he can provide better responses. I don’t think this necessarily reflects that JFK’s wit was fabricated, but it is undeniable that he was careful in how he projected himself, and the media was willing to accommodate him. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/34 "2014-06-21T18:29:16Z")
So what is the difference between what Kennedy did and cheating on a test? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575/35 "2014-06-21T20:20:23Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > So what is the difference between what Kennedy did and cheating on a test? [Moderator Note] Since this is an ethical question rather than one of fact, this is best addressed in Great Debates. Since the factual aspects of the OP have probably been addressed as well as can be in GQ, I’m going to close this and ask you to open another thread in GD if you wish to discuss the ethics of this. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jfks-faked-wit/690575.md?page=1)