# Jill Stein campaign thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 11, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088 "2016-06-11T07:12:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/41 "2016-07-06T21:28:34Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Trump is an anti-Vaxer. [So is Jill Stein](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4ixbr5/i_am_jill_stein_green_party_candidate_for/d31ydoe?context=3&st=iqajyhbu&sh=085b92f3). I’m pretty vehemently anti-Stein, and very pro-vax, but in fairness, I don’t see how you can read her answer in that AMA and conclude Stein is anti-vax. There’s a lot to criticize there: weaselly answer, apparent support for total woo (homeopathy), and general inarticulateness. Go crazy, there’s a goldmine there. But she doesn’t take an anti-vaccine position. In fact, her position seems to be: people should get more vaccines, there should be exemptions for medical reasons, and the vaccines and the exemptions process should be gated by impartial experts. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/42 "2016-07-06T22:20:20Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As I see it Jill Stein and Donald Trump are like 2 peas in a pod. Both are shockingly ignorant and both tread eagerly toward the same end: electing Republicans. I can’t tell the difference between the Green Party and the Republican Party. Thank God we have real choices like Hillary Clinton. > > Like Donald Trump, Jill Stein [supported Brexit](http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027965013), and like Donald Trump she stammered after the actual vote: Stein flip-flopped while Trump embarrassed himself and the US by not realizing that Scotland had voted to stay with the EU. > > Bernie Sanders wants free college. Ok, that’s ambitious but not crazy: lots of countries do things that way. Jill Stein wants to [cancel existing student loan debt](http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Jill_Stein_Education.htm). “The bailout for students can be accomplished through quantitative easing, the finance tool used to bail out the banks”. Um, wow. When the Fed bought treasuries and mortgage backed securities on the open market, they didn’t just forgive the debts. If they did the same with student loans, that would just mean that loan payments would be made to the Fed rather than a private bank. That’s Trump-level confusion, sort of like the orange one’s blovating about [federal debt](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/05/binc-watch-donald-trump-still-has-no-idea-how-government-debt-works). > > Jill Stein doesn’t like GMOs. Ookay. She wants a moratorium on GMOs _and pesticides_["until they are proven safe](http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Jill_Stein_Environment.htm)". Or maybe until we figure out what’s going on, like Trump says about his Muslim ban. > > Stein wants to cut military spending by [at least 50%](http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Jill_Stein_Homeland_Security.htm). No word on the timeline. She wants to, “…close the 700+ foreign military bases that are turning our republic into a bankrupt empire,” sharing the ignorance with Donald Trump regarding Japan et al’s financial support for most of the costs of these bases. > > Trump is an anti-Vaxer. [So is Jill Stein](https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4ixbr5/i_am_jill_stein_green_party_candidate_for/d31ydoe?context=3&st=iqajyhbu&sh=085b92f3). > > I will admit that Stein has more political experience than Donald Trump. She was elected Town Meeting Representative of Lexington, MA in both 2005 and 2008. In 2005 she received 539 votes which was less than 21% of the total but enough to give her a seat. Lexington has a population of 31,394. > > This fall, support the pro-sanity agenda. Vote Hillary Clinton or Gary Johnson. The election is too important to waste your vote on Stein or Trump. Yeah. Outside of a few bastions of liberalism, ( My town is one of them btw) the Greens only act as a spoiler. I think my town’s Greens have served us well. However, I also realize what happens when a Green runs for any office higher than County Commissioner. They either split the left-wing vote with the Dem, putting the Republican in office. Or, they are an irrelevant also-ran. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/43 "2016-07-06T22:48:35Z")
The Greens are the second party in San Francisco, the biggest opposition party to the Democrats. Still, though, they can’t elect anybody outside of city council. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/44 "2016-07-06T23:08:23Z")
Looks like the highest office ever held by the Green Party is a state rep position; once in the Maine state legislature (2002) and once in the Arkansas state legislature (2008 - although he almost immediately switched to Democrat after taking office). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/45 "2016-07-07T05:24:44Z")
Also, Audie Bock was elected to the California Assembly as a Green in 1999, but switched to the Democratic Party in 2000. [Audie Bock - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audie_Bock) > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I’m pretty vehemently anti-Stein, and very pro-vax, but in fairness, I don’t see how you can read her answer in that AMA and conclude Stein is anti-vax. There’s a lot to criticize there: weaselly answer, apparent support for total woo (homeopathy), and general inarticulateness. Go crazy, there’s a goldmine there. But she doesn’t take an anti-vaccine position. In fact, her position seems to be: people should get more vaccines, there should be exemptions for medical reasons, and the vaccines and the exemptions process should be gated by impartial experts. Thanks for checking my work. I read a characterization of it at wikipedia, skimmed the Reddit link, saw red, and added it to my list. Here’s what she said: [INDENT][INDENT] In the US, however, regulatory agencies are routinely packed with corporate lobbyists and CEOs. So the foxes are guarding the chicken coop as usual in the US. So who wouldn’t be skeptical? [/INDENT][/INDENT] BUT she goes on to say: [INDENT][INDENT]Vaccines in general have made a huge contribution to public health. Reducing or eliminating devastating diseases like small pox and polio. In Canada, where I happen to have some numbers, hundreds of annual death from measles and whooping cough were eliminated after vaccines were introduced. Still, vaccines should be treated like any medical procedure–each one needs to be tested and regulated by parties that do not have a financial interest in them. In an age when industry lobbyists and CEOs are routinely appointed to key regulatory positions through the notorious revolving door, its no wonder many Americans don’t trust the FDA to be an unbiased source of sound advice. A Monsanto lobbyists and CEO like Michael Taylor, former high-ranking DEA official, should not decide what food is safe for you to eat. Same goes for vaccines and pharmaceuticals. [/INDENT][/INDENT] Honestly, that’s not great. One is left with the impression that vaccines should be trusted in Canada, but not in the US. Or rather, some unnamed people might think that. Her claims are horsepucky, misleading, unhelpful. But I have to retract the claim that she’s anti-Vax _per se_ pending a better citation. Maybe she’s more fairly characterized as an anti-Vax panderer. I’ve wondered what a Democratic version of Donald Trump might look like. I think Jill Stein provides a reasonable thought experiment. Hypothetically, who would I vote for if the choices were D: Jill Stein, R: Romney, Lib: Ron Paul, Green: [Rush Holt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_D._Holt%2C_Jr.)? If it were 1988, I’d choose Romney. If the Republican Congress embraced compromise like the founding fathers intended, I’d choose Romney, especially if they denounced economic and scientific crackpottery moving forward. Otherwise, I’d seriously consider a half vote for Romney by voting for Rush Holt. I can’t see myself voting for Trump/Stein. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/46 "2016-07-08T07:17:05Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Unfortunately, Jill Stein _is_. The continued existence of the green party is a travesty and if I was the more conspiratorial type, I’d think she was being bankrolled by and supports the republican party. Really? Who bankrolled the Constitution Party? The Greens are amateurish and a bit silly, but I think a dedicated leftist party could be useful. Sure, they annoy Democrats and pull votes away from them, but that’s a good response to politicians who think the left can taken for granted. No, Gore didn’t really deserve that in 2000. But in general, it’s a valid strategy for certain causes, particularly given the tendency of some politicians to fart in the faces of Democratic constituents and mock them with, “Where else are you going to go!?” ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/47 "2016-07-08T07:23:53Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Stein just announced that the Greens support forgiving all college debt. Sounds like an appeal to Sanders supporters. Stein has an overly optimistic view of the President’s power over the Federal Reserve. She’s talking about getting the Fed to do a kind of quantitative easing. Not a bad idea, hard to get an independent body of bankers to do. > [@adaher](#): > > IT’s also anti-taxpayer. Do taxpayers that have trouble paying their share of that $1 trillion also get their tax debt forgiven? But this objection is silly. She’s talking about creating money through the Fed, actually. That said, if she actually won on that plank, I suppose even the Fed would see which way the wind was blowing, and after\* years\* of much yelling and screaming, do _some_ version of her quantitative easing proposal. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/48 "2016-07-08T07:38:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I could very well justify a vote for Trump as a “lesser of two evils” situation because court picks or something, but what happens to my party if Trump wins? What happens to the Democrats if Clinton wins? Now maybe Im outsmarting myself here, but it seems to me that a Clinton win is a win/win for me. It repudiates the Trump wing of the GOP, and rewards the DLC wing of the Democrats, and ensures the continued loyalty of minority voters to that wing of the Democratic Party. > > Also, if I vote for Trump in 2016 and he wins, then I have to deal with Trump in 2020 as well. Whereas if he loses, I get another shot at getting a Republican more to my liking. Anyone who doesn’t understand that basic fact about Sanders and Stein voters is missing the obvious. In 2016, the progressives lost. In 2020, they are guaranteed to lose if Clinton is running for reelection. But if she loses in 2016, they got another shot in 2020. Exactly. I expect a lot of Republicans–and I mean officeholders–will denounce Clinton in public and then secretly vote for her, because they think they can do better business in opposition to HRC than in the same party as a loose cannon in the White House. I think some of the leadership are still hoping that they can push around Trump if he wins. But a GOP Congressman chosen at random? I doubt it. I don’t know how many Democrats will vote for Trump just to see the back of Hillary Clinton. But there’s a subset of progressives who are going to be in conflict with either Clinton or Trump. Is it better to split the party fighting its leader, or just let her not be leader? Trump may be crazy enough to make this an unattractive gambit, though. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/49 "2016-07-08T07:40:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think it means “the party whose zealotry brought us the Iraq war.” Can you name a single Green who voted for the authorization to use military force? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/50 "2016-07-08T08:01:19Z")
**MfM** , since you’re using the standard “anti-science” slurs against Dr Stein, and you think someone who claims he’ll abolish income taxation is “sane,” I think we can discount your judgment on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/51 "2016-07-08T09:43:25Z")
But thanks for acknowledging that she’s not anti-vax, she just seems to have to pander to the woo side of her party. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/52 "2016-07-08T09:44:54Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Can you name a single Green who voted for the authorization to use military force? Every person who voted for Ralph Nader instead of Al Gore in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/53 "2016-07-08T16:06:31Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But thanks for acknowledging that she’s not anti-vax, she just seems to have to pander to the woo side of her party. So you agree with the anti-science assessment? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/54 "2016-07-08T17:22:06Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Every person who voted for Ralph Nader instead of Al Gore in 2000. Yep. \*They \*are responsible for the worst eight years in recent US History. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/55 "2016-07-08T18:01:54Z")
Voters who decided to play chicken by voting for a joke candidate don’t deserve some blame for failing to swerve at the last possible moment? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/56 "2016-07-08T22:53:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Every person who voted for Ralph Nader instead of Al Gore in 2000. Raises hand sheepishly. I won’t make that mistake again. Though in my defense, I voted in California, knowing it wouldn’t matter, but it definitely mattered in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/57 "2016-07-09T00:44:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. \*They \*are responsible for the worst eight years in recent US History. Not single-handedly, but yeah, they share a big part of the blame. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/58 "2016-07-09T01:17:42Z")
So what are voters who voted for Pat Buchanan? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/59 "2016-07-09T01:52:11Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So what are voters who voted for Pat Buchanan? Mostly elderly Florida Jews confused by the butterfly ballot. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088/60 "2016-07-09T13:18:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. \*They \*are responsible for the worst eight years in recent US History. Well, not really. The people responsible are all of those who put party loyalty, or personal spite or other frivolity, ahead of country, or just couldn’t be bothered, and failed to vote for Gore. Nader voters are a small subset of the total. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-campaign-thread/757088.md?page=4)