# Jill Stein is a stupid cretin **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313 "2017-02-08T10:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/21 "2017-02-09T15:18:37Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > You are incorrect. The margins in PA, WI, and MI were less than the total number of votes taken by the Green Party. Yes, Give Stein’s votes to Hillary and she wins all three of those states … and the Oval Office. And Johnson got more than thrice the votes of Stein. Give Hillary those votes as well and she takes Florida, Arizona (and Omaha, Neb.) for a landslide. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/22 "2017-02-09T15:36:30Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > This, and I say it as a Libertarian. > > I checked after the election. If every single person who voted for the Green and Libertarian party’s candidate plus that write-in guy from Utah had voted for Clinton (an impossibility) she still would not have won. Clinton would have won Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Arizona in that case. She would have easily won the electoral college. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/23 "2017-02-09T15:45:10Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > You are incorrect. The margins in PA, WI, and MI were less than the total number of votes taken by the Green Party. It’s only true of Michigan. In PA and WI, the margin of Trump victory was greater than the total number of Green votes. It’s true that the margin from Michigan, if spread over the other two, could have swung all three states. ```auto Pennsylvania: Trump - 2,912,941 Clinton - 2,844,705 Difference: 68,236 Stein - 48,912 ``` ```auto Wisconsin: Trump - 1,405,284 Clinton - 1,382,536 Difference: 22,748 Stein - 31,072 ``` But yes, as far as Michigan goes: ```auto Michigan: Trump - 2,279,805 Clinton - 2,268,193 Difference: 11,612 Stein - 50,700 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/24 "2017-02-09T15:59:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s only true of Michigan. In PA and WI, the margin of Trump victory was greater than the total number of Green votes. 22748 \> 31072 ? 😕 This must be that “New Math” I’ve heard so much about… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/25 "2017-02-09T16:12:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nah. Third parties are for people who want to express ideological purity, at the cost of preventing a travesty. Stein, in persuading sufficient people to vote for her, changed the course of history. She’s definitely a major player, a more important Trump ally than Bannon himself. I disagree. If you want to change politics, you have to get involved. Third party supporters are voluntarily removing themselves from the political process; if you tell the Democrats and Republicans you’re not going to vote for either of them, both parties know your views can safely be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/26 "2017-02-09T16:12:24Z")
I will admit to donating every year to keep my Green Party membership going (hey, I like the idea behind the party even if it never works in practice), but I am going to renounce my membership and go back to generic “no party” again, I don’t want to be associated with Jill Stein. Don’t worry everyone, I didn’t vote Green this year anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/27 "2017-02-09T16:18:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Clinton would have won Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Arizona in that case. She would have easily won the electoral college. But then, that would prove Trump was right and the election was rigged. Only by winning could he prove it wasn’t, but it still was rigged because even though he won, trillions of illegal Mexicans voted for The Crooked One 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/28 "2017-02-09T16:19:49Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > 22748 \> 31072 ? 😕 This must be that “New Math” I’ve heard so much about… alternative math ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/29 "2017-02-09T17:23:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s only true of Michigan. In PA and WI, the margin of Trump victory was greater than the total number of Green votes. The numbers [shown at Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016) are different from yours, swinging PA. (Wiki for WI was same as yours, with C+S\>T.) I’ll add Wiki’s number in red to your charts. ```auto Pennsylvania: Trump - 2,912,941 **2,970,733** Clinton - 2,844,705 **2,926,441** Difference: 68,236 **44,292** Stein - 48,912 **49,941** ``` But yes, as far as Michigan goes: ```auto Michigan: Trump - 2,279,805 **2,279,543** Clinton - 2,268,193 **2,268,839** Difference: 11,612 **10,704** Stein - 50,700 **51,463** ``` Which numbers are correct? Both sets are! In our Brave New World, everyone is entitled to his or her own facts. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/30 "2017-02-09T18:00:41Z")
I got twenty tweets into her feed and found three tweets that were just insanely stupid. The Green Party feed also has a tweet saying “Just enough Democratic Senators are voting for Trump’s appointees to enable their confirmation.” Apparently in the Green Party, they’re using alternative math. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/31 "2017-02-09T18:05:06Z")
Jill Stein has “corporate” water on the brain. During the campaign she developed [a massive case of butt-hurt](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/10/jill-stein-wants-national-conversation-on-oppressive-comedians/) because John Oliver made fun of her, leading to her issuing this statement: - " …We need to begin having honest conversations about the oppressive tactics corporate comedians continue to do towards already-marginalized groups of people. “Corporate comedy” - lotta laugh$ there. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/32 "2017-02-10T14:27:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s only true of Michigan. In PA and WI, the margin of Trump victory was greater than the total number of Green votes. It’s true that the margin from Michigan, if spread over the other two, could have swung all three states. > > ```auto > > Pennsylvania: > > Trump - 2,912,941 > Clinton - 2,844,705 > Difference: 68,236 > > Stein - 48,912 > > ``` > > ```auto > > Wisconsin: > > Trump - 1,405,284 > Clinton - 1,382,536 > Difference: 22,748 > > Stein - 31,072 > > ``` > > But yes, as far as Michigan goes: > > ```auto > > Michigan: > > Trump - 2,279,805 > Clinton - 2,268,193 > Difference: 11,612 > > Stein - 50,700 > > ``` I guess you should be arguing the law, counselor, because you certainly don’t have the facts. The PA and WI totals were revised in the days following the election as the recount efforts geared up. Both margins were less than Stein’s total when all was said and done. > **[2016 United States presidential election in Pennsylvania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Pennsylvania,_2016)** > > Trump > Clinton > Tie/No Data > **[2016 United States presidential election in Wisconsin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_Wisconsin,_2016)** > > Trump > Clinton > Tie/No Data Both sourced to the respective relevant official state departments. Objection overruled! Edit to Add : Wow, your own cite has the revised, correct totals for Wisconsin, as other people have pointed out. Math much? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/33 "2017-02-10T15:26:03Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > The PA and WI totals were revised in the days following the election as the recount efforts geared up. Both margins were less than Stein’s total when all was said and done. As true as that is, taking for example Pennsylvania, the final margin was 44,292. In order to overcome that about 89% of Pennsylvania Stein voters would have had to (1) show up and (2) vote for Clinton. That’s possible? But I’m not sure how particularly likely it is. Some of them would have stayed home, some would have voted for Gary Johnson, and even a few would have voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/34 "2017-02-10T16:23:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not going to stand for more of this while we deal with major crises in this country that could determine whether we’ll even survive as a species…deceptive comedy continues to silence anyone who speaks out against it…" The entire species is in danger and she’s worried about late night comedians. I think “Jill Stein is a stupid cretin” nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/35 "2017-02-10T16:36:17Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > As true as that is, taking for example Pennsylvania, the final margin was 44,292. In order to overcome that about 89% of Pennsylvania Stein voters would have had to (1) show up and (2) vote for Clinton. That’s possible? But I’m not sure how particularly likely it is. Some of them would have stayed home, some would have voted for Gary Johnson, and even a few would have voted for Trump. The other possibility is that if Jill Stein hadn’t spent nearly all her time talking shit about Clinton, maybe some folks who stayed home in disgust would have come out to vote. Hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/36 "2017-02-10T17:12:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The other possibility is that if Jill Stein hadn’t spent nearly all her time talking shit about Clinton, maybe some folks who stayed home in disgust would have come out to vote. Hard to tell. That’s true, though I’m not sure how much she fomented that dislike of Clinton or only tapped into it. But you’re right; if the hypothetical alternative is something richer than “Stein just happens not to compete in these states”, rather maybe something like “Stein and the green party support Clinton against a clearer danger”, then that could easily have swung things. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/37 "2017-02-10T17:15:10Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The top of a major third party. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > There’s no such thing. Not since Bull Moose Teddy came in second, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/38 "2017-02-10T17:26:10Z")
Meh, I’ve been an unapologetic third-party voter for decades. It was BS to blame Perot for Bill Clinton, BS to blame Nader for Bush, and BS to blame Stein for Trump. The problem isn’t Perot, Nader, or Stein, the problem is the major party candidate failing to convince the Perot, Nader, or Stein voters to choose them instead. Alternatively, the problem is the two-party system in the first place, but then you’re in the awkward position of saying third parties are spoilers and thus a bad thing, but that we need third parties because the two party system is broken… I guess what we really need is election reform that has things like instant run-off voting and then we can have a reasonable choice of candidates instead of just the normal choices between a turd sandwich, giant douche, and a couple crazy assclowns. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/39 "2017-02-10T18:42:25Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > As true as that is, taking for example Pennsylvania, the final margin was 44,292. In order to overcome that about 89% of Pennsylvania Stein voters would have had to (1) show up and (2) vote for Clinton. That’s possible? But I’m not sure how particularly likely it is. Some of them would have stayed home, some would have voted for Gary Johnson, and even a few would have voted for Trump. Pay attention to the conversation before you chime in. DesertDog said : "I checked after the election. If every single person who voted for the Green and Libertarian party’s candidate plus that write-in guy from Utah had voted for Clinton (an impossibility) she still would not have won. " I corrected him. Bricker responded with nonsense, as is his wont. I corrected him as well. The likelihood of such a scenario is not under discussion. Just the facts. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/40 "2017-02-10T19:11:05Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Wait … isn’t the Democrats considered a major third party … or do they just act that way? What … the … fuck … are … you … talking …about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313.md?page=3)