# Jill Stein is a stupid cretin **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313 "2017-02-08T10:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/41 "2017-02-10T19:32:45Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I corrected him. Bricker responded with nonsense, as is his wont. I corrected him as well. Is that [you](https://yt3.ggpht.com/-d5Y80Vn2rnM/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/rnPKyYnSWXU/s900-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xffffff/photo.jpg), Lloyd old boy? ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/42 "2017-02-10T20:07:32Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Pay attention to the conversation before you chime in. > […] > The likelihood of such a scenario is not under discussion. Just the facts. And I maintain that pointing out that Jill Stein may not (arguably!) have cost Clinton the election, based on vote totals, is germane to this discussion. The title of the thread is “Jill Stein is a stupid cretin”, after all, not “CandidGamera gives facts and should not be responded to”. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/43 "2017-02-10T20:25:32Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Meh, I’ve been an unapologetic third-party voter for decades. It was BS to blame Perot for Bill Clinton, BS to blame Nader for Bush, and BS to blame Stein for Trump. The problem isn’t Perot, Nader, or Stein, the problem is the major party candidate failing to convince the Perot, Nader, or Stein voters to choose them instead. Alternatively, the problem is the two-party system in the first place, but then you’re in the awkward position of saying third parties are spoilers and thus a bad thing, but that we need third parties because the two party system is broken… Meh. With the restaurant offering the choice of a mediocre hamburger or a pile of steaming dog shit, **Mtgman** orders braised monkey nuts (an item not even on the menu) and says “Meh” when the waiter brings him the dog shit. Are we still taking nominations for the Darwin Award? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/44 "2017-02-10T21:43:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Meh. With the restaurant offering the choice of a mediocre hamburger or a pile of steaming dog shit, **Mtgman** orders braised monkey nuts (an item not even on the menu) and says “Meh” when the waiter brings him the dog shit. In defense of Steven, the perception among many diners was that they were being offered a choice between two featured menu items - 1) a pile of steaming dog shit, and 2) a pile of flaming dog shit spiked with nuclear waste. The prospect of warmed-over dog shit in 2020 isn’t very appealing either. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/45 "2017-02-10T21:46:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Jill Stein’s not stupid; her career is running for an office that she and everyone else knows she cannot possibly win. And yet she finds enough suckers to keep her ‘candidacy’ (and political organization) alive. > > Who’s stupid again? Question: When you LOSE an election, what happens to all that money in the “war chest”?? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/46 "2017-02-10T22:20:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The other possibility is that if Jill Stein hadn’t spent nearly all her time talking shit about Clinton, maybe some folks who stayed home in disgust would have come out to vote. Hard to tell. You can expect more Steins and Johnsons etc, vote splitters to come at us from now on, riding a tidal wave of fake news distributed from Russian sources, alt right freaks, dubious "leaks from Comey (or someone like him) and provocateurs like Bannon and James O’Keefe, etc. Senate and House seats will be up for grabs soon, and the whole shit show will start all over again. When Trump and company yammered about fake news, they were, in true right wing tradition, projecting their own guilt. Now they know it works. Flood us with bullshit. Split the vote. Profit. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/47 "2017-02-11T03:46:37Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > I guess what we really need is election reform that has things like instant run-off voting and then we can have a reasonable choice of candidates instead of just the normal choices between a turd sandwich, giant douche, and a couple crazy assclowns. The eternal delusion of third party supporters; the belief that they have some widespread public support that’s somehow being prevented from voting for a third party candidate. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/48 "2017-02-11T05:05:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The eternal delusion of third party supporters; the belief that they have some widespread public support that’s somehow being prevented from voting for a third party candidate. What would make this all hilarious if it weren’t so bitterly tragic is that in a nation with 320 million people, there are 160 million with above-average intelligence, and perhaps 100,000 actual geniuses. Yett both Johnson and Stein showed the intellectual acumen of 5th-grade dropouts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/49 "2017-02-11T05:56:24Z")
If you want to change the direction of American politics, you should go the Bernie Sanders route. Get inside one of the two real parties and try to take the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/50 "2017-02-11T06:17:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Meh. With the restaurant offering the choice of a mediocre hamburger or a pile of steaming dog shit, **Mtgman** orders braised monkey nuts (an item not even on the menu) and says “Meh” when the waiter brings him the dog shit. > > Are we still taking nominations for the Darwin Award? > [@Jackmannii](#): > > In defense of Steven, the perception among many diners was that they were being offered a choice between two featured menu items - 1) a pile of steaming dog shit, and 2) a pile of flaming dog shit spiked with nuclear waste. While that may be an adequate defense of Steven, the diners who held such a perception are indefensible. It was always patently obvious that the choices were mediocre hamburger and dogshit. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/51 "2017-02-11T06:28:19Z")
What about Florida? I remember reading that Stein voters there could have won the election for Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/52 "2017-02-11T06:50:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What about Florida? I remember reading that Stein voters there could have won the election for Clinton. No. Trump won Florida with 4,605,515 votes. Clinton got 4,485,745 votes so Trump’s margin was 119,770 votes. Stein got 64,019 votes in Florida. Perhaps you’re thinking of Gary Johnson who got 206,007 votes in Florida. But it’s hard to imagine many of them were potential Clinton votes. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/53 "2017-02-11T08:54:24Z")
I can’t wait for Scott Pruitt to be confirmed as EPA head, just to see how fucking “green” the Green Party voters feel now about having handed the country over to a radical right wing minority government. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/54 "2017-02-11T09:31:09Z")
Only the official Communist Workers and Peasants Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party and the Communist Peasants and Workers Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party are to be permitted to run the state. Votes cast for all other parties will be discarded as attempts at pointless change bringing the System into disrepute. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/55 "2017-02-11T10:22:32Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Meh, I’ve been an unapologetic third-party voter for decades. It was BS to blame Perot for Bill Clinton, BS to blame Nader for Bush, and BS to blame Stein for Trump. The problem isn’t Perot, Nader, or Stein, the problem is the major party candidate failing to convince the Perot, Nader, or Stein voters to choose them instead. Alternatively, the problem is the two-party system in the first place, but then you’re in the awkward position of saying third parties are spoilers and thus a bad thing, but that we need third parties because the two party system is broken… > > I guess what we really need is election reform that has things like instant run-off voting and then we can have a reasonable choice of candidates instead of just the normal choices between a turd sandwich, giant douche, and a couple crazy assclowns. > > Enjoy, > Steven Well, you’re almost exactly half right. As in: your first paragraph is a load of _wank_, and your second paragraph is right on point. Jill Stein was not a candidate. She was as much a contender to win the election as _Vermin Supreme_ was. Now, as a liberal, here are your options: 1. Vote for Clinton. 2. Vote for Jill Stein. 3. Don’t Vote. Only option 1 helps prevent Trump from getting into the white house. Options 2 and 3 are _effectively identical_, with perhaps the negative side effect that voting for Stein _encourages_ her stupid, stupid, _stuuuuupid_ party to continue existing. You think Jill Stein doesn’t get this? You think _anyone_ in the green party hierarchy doesn’t fucking understand this after Nader in '00? In that case, they’re running to rule over a system they don’t understand at a third-grade level (seriously, you could show [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo) to a fucking 7-year-old and they would _probably_ get it). Otherwise, they are _trying_ to make the democrats lose. These people are not your allies. If they aren’t willing to do their best to not make a bad situation worse, _they are not helping_. Meanwhile, are you _still_ going to claim that Trump is better than Clinton? Because in defending your vote, _that’s what you’re doing_. You effectively have two people who _could_ have won the election. One was clearly an absolute fucking dumpster fire of a candidate. Do you think Trump was better than Clinton? If so, you’re a shitty liberal and a shitty thinker. And if not, there’s _no excuse for not voting for Clinton_. Gary Johnson can’t win. Jill Stein can’t win. The continued existence of the green party is proof positive that a lot of people are morons who continue to absolutely refuse to learn from their mistakes. > [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Only the official Communist Workers and Peasants Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party and the Communist Peasants and Workers Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party are to be permitted to run the state. Votes cast for all other parties will be discarded as attempts at pointless change bringing the System into disrepute. Oh go piss on an electric fence, you fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/56 "2017-02-11T11:42:25Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Only the official Communist Workers and Peasants Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party and the Communist Peasants and Workers Revolutionary ( Marxist-Leninist ) Party are to be permitted to run the state. Votes cast for all other parties will be discarded as attempts at pointless change bringing the System into disrepute. That would be a relevant comparison if it was also argued it’s meaningless to donate to third parties or to run third party candidates at all the other levels of government. Voting for Sanders in the primaries was a sensible third party action. Not voting for Clinton in the election was being an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/57 "2017-02-11T13:15:50Z")
I’ve posted before my 10-20-30 plan for third-party candidates, but I think it’s a great fucking plan, so here it is again: 10-20-30 Plan for Third Parties 1. Run candidates for local office! City council! County commission! Board of education! Mayor! When you’ve obtained 10% of the seats in a local jurisdiction, proceed to step 2. 2. Run candidates from this jurisdiction for state office! State Senate! State House! Governor! When you’ve obtained 20% of the seats in a state, proceed to step 3. 3. Run candidates from this state for federal office! Senate! House! When you’ve obtained 30% of the seats in a nation, proceed to step 4. 4. Run for president! DON’T YOU FUCKING SKIP STEPS 1-3, ASSHOLES. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/58 "2017-02-11T18:53:16Z")
The Libertarian and Green Parties this go-round were nuttier than the GOP! The only recent 3rd party to do well was the populist Reform Party; we ended up with a populist this time — how’s that working out? To misquote Shakespeare: _The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our parties, But in ourselves…_ ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/59 "2017-02-13T14:32:24Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > And I maintain that pointing out that Jill Stein may not (arguably!) have cost Clinton the election, based on vote totals, is germane to this discussion. The title of the thread is “Jill Stein is a stupid cretin”, after all, not “CandidGamera gives facts and should not be responded to”. If your point is “Jill Stein sitting this one out wouldn’t have let Clinton win” then as far as I can tell, no one is disputing that. No one is assuming all those Greens would show up in the same numbers and vote for Clinton. There’s just a “what if”. So the point is moot. And it’s especially irrelevant to the subordinate discussion that my post was a part of. But, of course, she IS a cretin. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313/60 "2017-02-16T23:16:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The eternal delusion of third party supporters; the belief that they have some widespread public support that’s somehow being prevented from voting for a third party candidate. The [US lags most of the developed world in voter turnout](http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/02/u-s-voter-turnout-trails-most-developed-countries/), but is in the top ten or so for voter registration. So it’s not like these people couldn’t vote, they just choose not to. It’s not unreasonable to believe that this is because the choices they have aren’t appealing. We’ve got enough registered voters staying home to absolutely swing an election, possibly even win it outright if a third party could get them to turn out. That’s a fact, not a delusion. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Now, as a liberal, here are your options: > > 1. Vote for Clinton. > 2. Vote for Jill Stein. > 3. Don’t Vote. A) I never said I was a liberal. B) My choices are the ones printed on my ballot. C) What part of “unapologetic” don’t you understand? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ve posted before my 10-20-30 plan for third-party candidates, but I think it’s a great fucking plan, so here it is again: > > 10-20-30 Plan for Third Parties > > 1. Run candidates for local office! City council! County commission! Board of education! Mayor! When you’ve obtained 10% of the seats in a local jurisdiction, proceed to step 2. > 2. Run candidates from this jurisdiction for state office! State Senate! State House! Governor! When you’ve obtained 20% of the seats in a state, proceed to step 3. > 3. Run candidates from this state for federal office! Senate! House! When you’ve obtained 30% of the seats in a nation, proceed to step 4. > 4. Run for president! DON’T YOU FUCKING SKIP STEPS 1-3, ASSHOLES. I would generally agree with this strategy, in theory. And I’ve seen it work for individual candidates who have the stamina to work their way up(Bernie Sanders anyone?). The problem, which is also an opportunity, is that at local levels people pay less attention to the races and know less about the candidates. Party votes tend to carry the day rather than issues and policy. The president of my local school board is an insufferable asshole who looks good on camera and has a “Dr.” in front of his name(mommy and daddy made him finish dental college before they’d bankroll his first business, but he hasn’t touched a dental instrument in decades). He’s a racist and the worst kind of entitled micromanager. But he won the election, so there you go. The real problem is the way humans make this decision in the first place. We call it [hueristics, biases, or, cognitive ease](http://farthertogo.com/what-is-cognitive-ease-and-why-should-you-be-wary-of-it/). But tis’ all the same in the end, bad decision making. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jill-stein-is-a-stupid-cretin/779313.md?page=4)