# Jim Beam - no more American Whiskey **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [January 13, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660 "2014-01-13T14:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dr.Righteous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Dr.Righteous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Righteous)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/21 "2014-01-13T21:48:46Z")
Weird - I was just at Jim Beam last October and I got a full on tour + tasting. The best tour I took, however, was the hardhat tour at Buffalo Trace. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/22 "2014-01-14T21:47:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But it couldn’t be sold in the US as “Bourbon” I believe. “Kentucky Straight Bourbon” must be made in Kentucky (some other restrictions on ingredients, too,) but “Bourbon” may be made anywhere. For example, one or two are made here in Indiana. Suntory already had bought some other US whiskeys, and they are still made in the US. Suntory also makes some highly regarded single-malt whiskeys in Japan. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/23 "2014-01-14T22:07:34Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > “Kentucky Straight Bourbon” must be made in Kentucky (some other restrictions on ingredients, too,) but “Bourbon” may be made anywhere. For example, one or two are made here in Indiana. But that wasn’t the point. “Bourbon whisky” (along with “rye whisky”, “wheat whisky”, “malt whisky”, or “rye malt whisky”) requires barrel aging in new charred oak barrels, according to labeling laws I posted earlier. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/24 "2014-01-14T23:33:09Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > True, the best thing to happen to the Four Roses brand in my lifetime was when it was bought by a Japanese company. It went from not even being good enough to mix with coke to possibly being the best bang for your buck in whiskey. Really? _makes note to self_ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/25 "2014-01-14T23:35:28Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Really? _makes note to self_ Yeah, Four Roses is great bang-for-buck. I highly recommend it as an everyday sipping bourbon. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/26 "2014-01-21T14:51:14Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > And they started selling it in the US again, too. I love 4 Roses. I’ve never seen Four Roses here in the UK, but I do love Jim Beam bourbon. Hopefully this buyout won’t affect the quality. IMHO JB\>\>\>\>JD. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/27 "2014-01-21T14:59:44Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > I’ve never seen Four Roses here in the UK, but I do love Jim Beam bourbon. > > Hopefully this buyout won’t affect the quality. IMHO JB\>\>\>\>JD. I’d probably take the Jim Beam black over the JD, but the JD over the Jim Beam White. And Four Roses over all of them. Jim Beam Rye would be hard; I’d put it over all except the Four Roses, and then it would depend whether I’m in the mood for a bourbon or rye (and usually, it’s rye for me.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/28 "2014-01-21T15:13:23Z")
4 Roses is funny. I can check out at the supermarket with a case of other stuff and nobody bats an eye, but let me show up in line with a bottle of 4 Roses and every old fart in the place will notice and ask about it. Lots of old bourbon junkies out there remember the stuff with fondness. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/29 "2014-01-23T03:22:17Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Suntory also makes some highly regarded single-malt whiskeys in Japan. Which I have had, and it is delicious and smooth. I’m okay with this takeover. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/30 "2014-01-23T04:36:16Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#): > > Which I have had, and it is delicious and smooth. I’m okay with this takeover. Yamazaki whiskey is awesome stuff. I can’t imagine that Jim Beam quality could go DOWN as a result of being bought by a company that produces such excellent whiskey. Plus, like others have said, the jobs aren’t leaving, just the ownership. Which would be better- a US owned company where the manufacturing is done overseas, or a foreign-owned company with US manufacturing, and the corresponding jobs? (clearly US owned, US manufactured would be ideal, but that isn’t the case here) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/31 "2014-01-23T04:52:22Z")
When Ford sold Jaguar to the Indians, they started to make really good cars. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/32 "2014-01-23T05:15:52Z")
It has been argued that the Japanese rediscovered bourbon and created the first market for the extra-aged premium bourbons that we have available here now. Brown liquor was dead, dead, dead during the ascendancy of vodka in the '80s-'00s, and only the spillover from the Japanese craze for scotch reignited the industry. Suntory absolutely knows quality, maybe they’ll get Beam to step up their game and do something interesting to compete with Sazerac, Heaven Hill and the others. Beam was already a multi-national, owning Canadian brands, Mexican tequilas and a couple scotch distilleries at a minimum. This just works out to be a change of address for the accounting department. Bourbon is legally defined as a product of the United States, so they can’t move the distilleries even if they were dumb enough to. And the rules for production (51% corn, aged in charred new oak barrels, etc.) are constrained enough that they can’t do much else either. Anyway, Japan and the east in general is a huge market for bourbon, and they are as picky about methods and standard as any connoisseur here. It’s all in good hands. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/33 "2014-01-23T05:18:42Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > …but “Bourbon” may be made anywhere… Anywhere in the US. The feds have defined bourbon as a product of the US only. > [@](#): > > For example, one or two are made here in Indiana. A whole lot more than that. MGPI in Lawrenceburg makes bourbon on contract for many, many supposed ‘craft’ brands. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/34 "2014-01-23T21:30:09Z")
The Beam group also makes the magnificent Knob Creek. If Knob Creek isn’t terrific enough for you, the Beam family makes Baker’s. Just a sip of Baker’s Kentucky Straight Bourbon can cause me to close my eyes, smile, and melt right down into my socks. Oh, would that I were wealthy enough to say that Baker’s is my regular bourbon. Mercy! ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/35 "2014-01-23T22:45:26Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > The Beam group also makes the magnificent Knob Creek. If Knob Creek isn’t terrific enough for you, the Beam family makes Baker’s. Just a sip of Baker’s Kentucky Straight Bourbon can cause me to close my eyes, smile, and melt right down into my socks. Oh, would that I were wealthy enough to say that Baker’s is my regular bourbon. Mercy! All three of those share the same yeast, and share a particular flavor profile that I do not love, although KC is my go-to when out at a place without actual ryes. That said, Beam also make Old Granddad, and the Bottled In Bond and OGD 114 variants are my favorite everyday drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/36 "2014-01-23T22:49:17Z")
Regular OGD is paint thinner, but the BiB expression is quite lovely, I agree. Can’t support the love for Baker’s, though. It always tastes off to me. Booker’s, OTOH… ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/37 "2014-01-24T03:02:38Z")
Suddenly, the recent onslaught of Jim Beam advertisement we’ve been seeing here in Japan makes sense. As does the quite welcome appearance, and aggressive marketing of Orangina two years ago. [Leonardo DiCaprio peddling cool bourbon](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPgamS0qrWs) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/38 "2014-01-25T00:31:09Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > All three of those share the same yeast, and share a particular flavor profile that I do not love, although KC is my go-to when out at a place without actual ryes. That said, Beam also make Old Granddad, and the Bottled In Bond and OGD 114 variants are my favorite everyday drinkers. Based on what I understand of bourbon-making, they may well be the same exact whiskey coming off the still, but just aged for different amounts of time in different areas of the rickhouse. In other words, same grain bill, same yeast, same fermentation and same distillation, but the first 100 barrels go to the top of the rickhouse for X length of time and become Baker’s, the next 100 go into the bottom for Y length and become OGD, and the next 100 go into the middle for Z length of time and become OGD-BIB. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/39 "2014-01-25T00:47:58Z")
Sorta. My understanding is that all of the stuff goes into the rickhouse, and then they taste it as they move the barrels around. Since every area ages the whiskey differently, they can pull barrels from a certain three areas and blend OGD, barrels from other areas for Baker’s, etc. The OGD-BiB is the blend for OGD, just not diluted as much and held in a government warehouse for a certain length of time. That’s what “Bottled in Bond” means. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660/40 "2014-01-25T01:42:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Based on what I understand of bourbon-making, they may well be the same exact whiskey coming off the still, but just aged for different amounts of time in different areas of the rickhouse. In other words, same grain bill, same yeast, same fermentation and same distillation, but the first 100 barrels go to the top of the rickhouse for X length of time and become Baker’s, the next 100 go into the bottom for Y length and become OGD, and the next 100 go into the middle for Z length of time and become OGD-BIB. Mostly. I understand that Beam varies the proof off the still for some of their different labels. Then they may have targeted areas of the rock house, but then beyond that, they profile the barrels to some degree to steer the right flavor profiles into the right blend. They might pull barrels from all over the place to get the profile they’re targeting. Turns out trees are awfully inconsistent and even barrels that have sat side by side over the years can be quite different. One reason I like OGD is because it is a different high-rye mashbill that is shared only with Basil Hayden, I believe. Those two have their own yeast as well. By the way, the old granddad pictured on the label is good old Basil Hayden. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-beam-no-more-american-whiskey/678660.md?page=1)