# Jim\_B's Note should be upgraded to a Warning at least **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 4, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959 "2022-05-04T18:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/61 "2022-05-05T16:01:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > For one reason, because they often turn into threads _supporting_ mod decisions. Especially when they’re started by obvious trolls and bigots. I’ve been a moderator (again, not here) and for a mod these things suck. You’d rather take the time to get it right, than to hurry up to quickly take action **before it’s too late** and then wait for people to quibble with you. > [@Miller](#): > > Here’s why that will never work: If I’m going to be wrong about something, I’d much rather be wrong in front of a small group of people that I can trust to be respectful, rather than in front of a large group of people, no small percentage of which are unrepentant assholes. Exactly this. You do need to have a thick skin and take actions that you believe are right (especially if they are clearly enforcing community standards as written) even if they’re unpopular, but the last thing you want to do is do the wrong thing and get crapped on for it because you didn’t think it through beforehand. Being second-guessed and criticized is not fun, especially when you’re just a volunteer doing it as a hobby, for fun, because you like to help people. I can’t fault anyone for wanting to avoid that. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/62 "2022-05-05T16:04:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > But my decisions can impact all other moderators in a forum, so I wanted to give them a chance to weigh in before formalizing the discipline. If you find that unreasonable, well, tough. That is the furthest thing from unreasonable that I can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/63 "2022-05-05T16:10:52Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Also there are some mechanics involved. As a modnote is just a post and nothing else, it is extremely easy to edit it or to elevate it to an actual warning. But the way Discourse works, a warning is quite a bit more to undo. See, information like that is useful, it definitely makes me inclined to be less hyped about this. Not _not_ hyped, mind you, just _less_. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > it is hard not to be defensive about it. Defensiveness is fine, as long as it’s in the open - or PMs work too, but some sort of transparency is appreciated. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > To be honest I see @MrDibble 's reaction here as a reason for mods to be less open about their thinking behind their decisions. Appeal to consequences is a logical fallacy I have no time for. What about my posting history makes you think I’m going to be _less_ uppity if I thought the mods were being more opaque? > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Then you are never going to be happy with my approach to moderation. I much prefer a collegiate approach. That’s my style, and it’s not going to change. Good to know this now. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I wasn’t in doubt that it was hate speech, wasn’t in doubt that I felt he should be warned I _still_ fail to see why you couldn’t just warn him right then-and-there. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > But my decisions can impact all other moderators in a forum I don’t see how, for a warning. Sure, topic and thread bans, but _warnings_? > [@Aspenglow](#): > > If you find that unreasonable, well, tough. Like I’ve said elsewhere I am _entirely_ used to unreasonable moderation here. This isn’t a patch on _real_ unreasonableness (see: **tomndebb** and hate speech) Doesn’t mean I’m not going to call it out when I see it, though. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I’ve been a moderator (again, not here) and for a mod these things suck. You’d rather take the time to get it right, than to hurry up to quickly take action **before it’s too late** and then wait for people to quibble with you. To quote a wise person: “well, tough.” As evidenced by this thread and others, _not_ taking quick action against trolls and bigots isn’t going to _stop_ quibble threads, it’ll just be a different set of people posting them. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/64 "2022-05-05T16:15:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’d say the warning should be automatic for hate speech (and racism, and misogyny, and … pick your bigotry) I sort of agree with **MrDibble** here. @Aspenglow, if you were unsure as to the appropriate sanction I think you should have held off on [post #8](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-to-elton-john/963951/8) until you received feedback from the other mods. I don’t think it is appropriate for a moderator to opine (in official colors) that a post constitutes hate speech and simultaneously that no warning will be issued, it sends the wrong message. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/65 "2022-05-05T16:16:43Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t think it is appropriate for a moderator to opine (in official colors) that a post constitutes hate speech and simultaneously that no warning will be issued, it sends the wrong message. **Max** gets it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/66 "2022-05-05T16:20:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I _still_ fail to see why you couldn’t just warn him right then-and-there. Let me reference you to this thread: > [@Attack the post; I did that](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/attack-the-post-i-did-that/961763): > > Continuing the discussion from [Should Bork have been borked?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-bork-have-been-borked/961709/106): Why is this post modded? I attacked the post. Others go on about 3/5ths and attack motives, but I get a note for attacking an argument? This immense kerfuffle was in the wake of a mod note. _A mod note_. I felt I was on entirely solid turf. Turns out, I wasn’t. So yes, a certain hesitation can set in. I don’t mind being wrong. I dislike being verbally eviscerated. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I sort of agree with **MrDibble** here. @Aspenglow, if you were unsure as to the appropriate sanction I think you should have held off on [post #8](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kudos-to-elton-john/963951/8) until you received feedback from the other mods. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/67 "2022-05-05T16:21:26Z")
SDMB has no bright line rules. There is nothing that mandates a particular moderation action. Not that I know of. So there isn’t such thing as an automated warning for bigotry or anything else, unlike what is implied here. The closest I can think of is spamming and socking, and even there I’m not 100% sure. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/68 "2022-05-05T16:22:53Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > There is nothing that mandates a particular moderation action. When I signed up, I was promised that > “Hate speech, […] will not be tolerated.” and I expect moderators to respect that attitude. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/69 "2022-05-05T16:23:35Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > and I expect moderators to respect that attitude. **How?** That’s the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/70 "2022-05-05T16:24:14Z")
I for one think that Mr. Dibble’s attitude and approach regarding expectations of moderators in this thread is entirely unreasonable. I would never want to hold our volunteer moderators to this standard. Some degree of transparency is desirable, but I would never want to discourage a moderator from consulting with colleagues before taking action, even if in my view the matter was an obvious one. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/71 "2022-05-05T16:27:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I would never want to discourage a moderator from consulting with colleagues before taking action Nor I. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/72 "2022-05-05T16:27:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The closest I can think of is spamming and socking, and even there I’m not 100% sure. Even these can be a little fuzzy. A brand new poster joins and spams, they’re gone and deleted. But sometimes a poster just has a spammy link and we’ll remove the link and add a modnote or staff note. As to socking, quite frankly if someone came back and didn’t stir up shit and contributed to the board, we would never think about going after them. So that is one exception in theory that I’m pretty sure happens. The other is technically we have some posters that ended up with a new user profile after the move to Discourse. At worst, we combine the accounts. I should say ECG, combines the accounts. But mostly we leave them be. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/73 "2022-05-05T16:28:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This immense kerfuffle was in the wake of a mod note. _A mod note_ . So was this one. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I felt I was on entirely solid turf. Turns out, I wasn’t. So yes, a certain hesitation can set in. Like I said in that thread, your moderation was fine and should _not_ have been reversed. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t mind being wrong. I dislike being verbally eviscerated. If you think that’s what’s happened in _this_ thread, your threshold is low. > [@Atamasama](#): > > There is nothing that mandates a particular moderation action. Lots of stuff will get you insta-banned, no question. Call another poster the words “nigger” or “faggot” in seriousness, see how that goes. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/74 "2022-05-05T16:28:15Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Even these can be a little fuzzy. Hehe… Fuzzy socks… (Sorry, I couldn’t help it.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/75 "2022-05-05T16:29:25Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Exactly this. You do need to have a thick skin and take actions that you believe are right (especially if they are clearly enforcing community standards as written) even if they’re unpopular, but the last thing you want to do is do the wrong thing and get crapped on for it because you didn’t think it through beforehand. > > Being second-guessed and criticized is not fun, especially when you’re just a volunteer doing it as a hobby, for fun, because you like to help people. I can’t fault anyone for wanting to avoid that. And that’s why I turned down an invitation to submit an application to moderate at the site I think you’re referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/76 "2022-05-05T16:29:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If you think that’s what’s happened in _this_ thread, your threshold is low. I specifically referenced the other thread as a basis for continued caution in making absolute decisions. Not this one. Please don’t bootstrap. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/77 "2022-05-05T16:30:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Lots of stuff will get you insta-banned. Call another poster the words “nigger” or “faggot”, see how that goes. Is that really true? (Again, not a rhetorical question. You might be right, but I wasn’t aware of this.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/78 "2022-05-05T16:31:35Z")
I’ve never tested it, or seen it done, but I believe it to be the case. I’m not saying it’s a rule or anything, just that there’s no way a mod would let that stand and still be able to mod here. If I said something like “You’re wrong, faggot” to a known gay poster (hell, _any_ poster), or "“That \ is just a greedy kike”, I would expect to have 5 seconds left on this board. And if I got away with just a warning, and the rest of the board didn’t raise a stink about it, I would be _very_ disappointed in all of you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/79 "2022-05-05T16:42:57Z")
You have to admit that speech that subjectively may or may not be labeled as hate speech falls on a spectrum of obviousness or offensiveness and that where on that spectrum a particular post may fall is subjective and seeking confirmation or even a loose consensus before an official sanction about the seriousness of said offense is not problematic. The examples you listed are obviously against board policy and wouldn’t require any mod who knows the rules to hesitate or confer with others in order to quickly and firmly adjudicate. Not every case will be so simple to categorize. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959/80 "2022-05-05T16:43:46Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > When I signed up, I was promised that > > > “Hate speech, […] will not be tolerated.” > > and I expect moderators to respect that attitude. > > ~Max “Promised”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-bs-note-should-be-upgraded-to-a-warning-at-least/963959.md?page=5)