# Jim Butcher Fans: The new Dresden Shipped today! \[Open Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069 "2010-04-05T19:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/41 "2010-04-11T01:54:41Z")
So, I take it from the unspoilered comments that the fae are featured in this book? Dammit, I hate the fae. They’re my least favorite flavor of paranormal creature. They’re portrayed as way too powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/42 "2010-04-11T06:04:53Z")
I think the Fae are in every book, to an extent. This one’s not exclusively about the Fae, but they are involved. As usual. ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/43 "2010-04-11T10:09:55Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I think his prose and humor are just fine as they are. _De gustibus non est disputandum_, etc… Personally, Butcher’s humor falls flat to me much more often than not and his prose is usually workmanlike but sometimes makes me groan out loud. It’s not awful but it isn’t good either. IMHO, of course [QUOTE=Maleus, Incus, Stapes!] Okay, so he still needs to be human. I still think Mab is behind this, somehow. Technically Mab is neutral, but practically she’s evil. That is to say, whatever her actions mean in some amoral higher reality, in the real world her actions come down as evil. They certainly cause much distress. [/QUOTE] [spoiler]I don’t think Mab’s behind it. For starters, Harry apparently was shot in a very human fashion, something which a Fae is unable to do. The whole reason a Winter Knight is needed in the first place is so Mab can have a representative in the human world. My money is on the Summer Knight. Sure, he was Dresden’s friend, but that was before Harry went completely over to the other side. Now he’s Harry’s enemy pretty much by definition and if _I_ had Harry Dresden as an enemy and thought I could kill him from a distance I’d most certainly do it; the guy’s much too dangerous and powerful. I have to admit, though, that before I read of the shot I was expecting Mab to show up just in time to screw with Harry’s date.[/spoiler] I don’t think Mab’s evil either. The fact that actions cause distress doesn’t make them evil by itself; I’m often distressed I have to pay taxes. In fact, over the books I’m pretty sure Mab’s done more good than harm. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/44 "2010-04-12T04:34:34Z")
Read it today in 11 hours, not counting distractions for meals, Illini softball, and whatnot. Now to read the thread and spoilers… ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/45 "2010-04-12T04:56:04Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I’m still waiting to see what he does with the sword that was entrusted to him how many novels back. So I guess you got sort of an answer? Mouse is guarding Molly. > [@RikWriter](#): > > I think his prose and humor are just fine as they are. Seconded. > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I have a feeling this might get used to get Harry out of the the winter court.[/spoiler][spoiler] I think it is the icy tentacles of Winter that saves Harry from death. > [@carlb](#): > > This isn’t really directly related to the latest book, but there aren’t any other _Dresden Files_ threads active right now, so I thought I’d put my random, moderately pointless thought here. > > For some strange reason, when we first met him, I pictured Michael Carpenter as black. I have no idea why. No reason he had to be, and absolutely nothing about the way he was written should have led me to that conclusion, but that’s the way I pictured him; just a bit like John Henry in the DC Comics world (maybe not quite so weight-lifter-ish in his physique). In fact, I think it was long after Molly’s introduction that it sunk in that she was blonde (well, when her hair wasn’t purple or blue). My head picture of Molly was the eldest of Murtaugh’s daughters in _Lethal Weapon_. I think she looks like the new black chick on Saving Grace: [Yanni King](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1477301/). No explanation for that. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/46 "2010-04-12T12:17:15Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > So I guess you got sort of an answer? > > Mouse is guarding Molly. No, I didn’t. If the answer is in the latest book, it’ll be a little while before I read it. **PLEASE** be careful with spoilers. I was reading this thread because everyone is being real good about that, but it’s silly for me to tempt fate, and there’s probably little more for me to be gained by continuing to read it now. I’ll just step out and return when I get to read it. Dunno what the Mouse - Molly comment is referring to. Guess I’ll find out when I find out. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/47 "2010-04-12T13:41:04Z")
I’ll put [Open Spoilers] in the thread title. Ellen Mod ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/48 "2010-04-12T15:01:17Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Dunno what the Mouse - Molly comment is referring to. Guess I’ll find out when I find out. I read the book, and I’m nor sure what it’s about, either. So don’t worry. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/49 "2010-04-13T05:30:00Z")
Open spoilers now? Hurray! I hate spoiler-boxing things! 😛 Just finished this today, finally. This is probably now tied with Dead Beat as my favorite book in the series, and that’s saying something (ZOMBIE T-REX!!). The series got a good shake-up before things started getting stale. Probably the two major things being that Harry is now the Winter Knight, and the Red Court was literally wiped out in one fell swoop (and it didn’t seem contrived at all). I can’t keep all of the fantasy worlds straight in my head. Is death Final in the Dresden-verse? Or has it even been brought up before (besides zombie necromancy, that is). It seems that if Harry dies, and is brought back to life, he might be able to get out of his bargain with Mab. Then again, she might go back on her part of the bargain, and break his back again. Though, it seems unlikely that Mab would let her new plaything die before he even enters her service. Damn you, Butcher! These are things I want to know NOW, not a year from now! Ebenezer is Harry’s grandpa, apparently. That doesn’t change much of anything, though. Their relationship was already closer than some father-son relationships. And Murphy’s one step closer to wielding a Sword of the Cross (permanently, at least) I’m going to be sorely disappointed if they never bring Maggie up again. If there’s a total of 20 books, that will make her about 16 when the series ends… which would make a great age for an apprentice, no? I’m going to let this all digest in my head a little bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/50 "2010-04-13T05:31:37Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I read the book, and I’m nor sure what it’s about, either. So don’t worry. At the end of the book, Molly is hurt, so Mouse goes with her when she’s helicopter’d out. He’s still with her at the end of the book. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/51 "2010-04-13T11:53:51Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > I’ll put [Open Spoilers] in the thread title. > > Ellen > Mod Thanks Ellen! ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/52 "2010-04-13T20:31:09Z")
OK - now that we are open… He ain’t dead. He slipped, the shot went wide on the sternum (a lucky slip on the deck probably saved him). He is wounded and in ice-cold water instead. I am glad to be done with the apartment. He needed out of there - his status is well beyond a little place like that. I would like to see him have a weekend lab retreat on the island. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/53 "2010-04-13T23:34:51Z")
So, here’s what I’m predicting: For the last 11 books, Harry has had one foot in the supernatural world (as a White Council Wizard) and one foot in the mortal world (as a PI). Now that he’s stepped into the role of Winter Knight, provided he doesn’t loophole his way out of it, he’s now firmly entrenched in the supernatural world, having duties to both the Council (or what’s left of it) and to Winter (and perhaps to Molly, although she’s probably no longer merely an apprentice now). This doesn’t leave him any time to take on cases. Which is where Murphy steps in. Now that she’s off the force, she still needs to earn a living, and her sense of duty and protectiveness is phenomenal. Given her strong detective experience and her knowledge of the supernatural, she’ll take up Harry’s PI duties, with Rawlins (now the head of SI) using her as a consultant. This will allow Harry to deal with big-picture supernatural problems as well as tackle mysteries with Murphy from time to time. Being the Winter Knight, his material needs will be provided for, removing any need to earn money on his own, which is good, since the Council is in complete disarray, making it unlikely he’ll be receiving any more Warden stipends. ---
**Author:** ![Noelq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noelq/32/16438_2.png) [@Noelq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noelq)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/54 "2010-04-13T23:47:05Z")
I’m just a bit disappointed that Harry didn’t consider Demonreach as a safe haven for his activities. It was SUCH a big set-up in the last book that it doesn’t make sense for him to completely ignore it. I’m also predicting that the semi-possession of Murphy by Bob is going to have some unintended consequences. Butcher is famous for taking small, little details and turning them into large plot points (Toot-toot, anyone 🙂 ?). I really don’t like the Molly-Lusting-For-Harry subplot. That’s… just damn wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. But I DO like how much Mrs. Carpenter is accepting Molly’s wizardry, and helping her out with her steelworking skills where applicable. And no - death is not permanent in Butcher’s world. Harry’s been dead a number of times, already. Noel. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/55 "2010-04-23T15:20:05Z")
I waited more or less patiently for the audio version to arrive and got through the book in just two days. _James Marsters_ read as well as before though I am not sure if I was projecting or if he really sounded annoyed at times while reading the more … melodramatic passages. So close after the last chapter I’m not quite sure what to think of #12. I like Butcher’s willingness to shake things up fundamentally and consequentially. And I simply liked to hear again from so many of the characters that I am fond of. But all in all it was, well, disappointing. I have to think a bit about the reasons for my reserve before I can comment on them, but I already know that it has a lot to do with the lack of character development within the cast (some, like Sanya, have become quite cartoonish), the far too simple black & white characters overall and with the more and more absurd situations that are presented and simply don’t work for me in the details (Murphy’s role in Chichen Itza is one example) and in their meaning for the structure of Butcher’s universe. I am also annoyed that he is adding more and more power to known characters (or characters in known roles) simply to keep them “useful” in the continuously more demanding fights that are shown. Apropos _power_: next to _literally_, this is the word Butcher loves far, far too much. Worse, I thought his prose, while never great, has been sloppy this time and the humor uncharacteristically badly timed. Finally, the book didn’t show any balance between action and characters. The plot, the many, many things that had to happen left room only for stick figures (apart form Harry) that had even less depth than the villains and heroes of a Michael Bay movie – which made the overall story a bit boring. :eek: Yeah, I know, I sound like I didn’t enjoy the book at all – which is not true. But I enjoyed it far less that the previous one and I can’t see a lot of merit in it beyond its transitory quality for the series itself. Oh well, maybe I’ll change my mind in a couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/56 "2010-05-10T12:08:33Z")
I hope it’s not too late to resurrect this. I just got the book and finished it last night. As usual, there was so much going on that some details probably escaped my notice, and I have a question. Remember when Harry is temporarily paralyzed after the apartment fire, and the mortal gunman comes in and tries to kill him? They capture the guy and he claims to have been hired by Susan. Next scene, Toot is hired for pizza, and Harry discovers that Susan and Martin are in the FBI building. Next, Harry goes after her, and then it’s on to the Erl-king, etc. As far as I can remember, Butcher never answers whether Susan hired the gunman, or if she didn’t, who did? Was that a hanging thread, or did I just miss the explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/57 "2010-05-10T14:31:32Z")
I finally got to this book just last week, and yer not alone **Dung**. I was watching for that loose thread to get sewn in somewhere, too, but never saw it happen, and frankly found it hard to believe that Harry would let such a possible betrayal go un-called-out. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/58 "2010-05-10T14:40:47Z")
That did bother me too, and it’s not like Butcher to leave a plot thread hanging. One can only hope it’ll be woven into the next book. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/59 "2010-05-10T15:39:27Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > As far as I can remember, Butcher never answers whether Susan hired the gunman, or if she didn’t, who did? Was that a hanging thread, or did I just miss the explanation? Harry decided that the gunman was hired by the Red Vampire assassin who used her vampire mojo to confuse the gunman into thinking Susan hired him. We never got any confirmation of this, though. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/60 "2010-05-10T17:38:30Z")
Well, alrighty then. Thanks guys! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069.md?page=4)