# Jim Butcher Fans: The new Dresden Shipped today! \[Open Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 5, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069 "2010-04-05T19:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/61 "2010-05-10T20:15:12Z")
That’s what i thought too.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Awgrimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Awgrimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Awgrimm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/62 "2010-05-11T16:46:59Z")
Not to completely highjack this thread, but does anyone know of a list of all of the Dresden-related stories in chronological order? Not by publication, but by how they fit into the Dresdenverse timeline? For example, between which books does “The Warrior” fit? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/63 "2010-05-11T20:24:49Z")
> [@Awgrimm](#): > > Not to completely highjack this thread, but does anyone know of a list of all of the Dresden-related stories in chronological order? Not by publication, but by how they fit into the Dresdenverse timeline? For example, between which books does “The Warrior” fit? > > Thanks in advance. [Series Timeline](http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?topic=1592.0) ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/64 "2010-05-12T01:42:57Z")
> [@wintertime](#): > > [Series Timeline](http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?topic=1592.0) Link doesn’t work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/65 "2010-05-12T06:51:18Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Link doesn’t work for me. Try again? It worked for me. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/66 "2010-05-12T09:07:50Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Link doesn’t work for me. If you still have a problem with the link, go to the [Jim-Butcher.Com Community](http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/) -\> “The Dresden Files” -\> “Spoilers” and there to the thread “Series Timeline”. Pleae, take the “spoilers” headline seriously; in case you haven’t read all the books you will stumble upon information you might regret to have in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/67 "2010-05-14T03:42:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Try again? It worked for me. Huh. Apparently I can’t go to Jim Butcher’s website. _Firefox can’t find the server at [www.jimbutcheronline.com](http://www.jimbutcheronline.com)._ ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/68 "2010-05-14T04:54:55Z")
Can you get there from [here](http://jim-butcher.com/)? ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/69 "2010-05-15T09:06:41Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Can you get there from [here](http://jim-butcher.com/)? All links are now working. Dunno what to say about that, but I’ll take it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Wing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/51bf81/32.png) [@Little\_Wing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Wing)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/70 "2010-05-16T17:37:40Z")
_skim skim skim_ It’s really hard to avoid the spoilers in this thread. Yeah, I know I’ve been warned but I was wanting to ask a question about Turn Coat, which I just finished. 🙂 Was anyone else a bit surprised that there was hardly any mention of Michael’s condition? The previous book had him barely clinging to life and in Turn Coat, I think I can recall two mentions of Michael in passing but nothing that gave any significant information on his recovery. I’ve adored Butcher’s books but I can say that this oversight…omission…was the first time I’ve been disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/71 "2010-05-16T17:50:25Z")
> [@Little\_Wing](#): > > Was anyone else a bit surprised that there was hardly any mention of Michael’s condition? The previous book had him barely clinging to life and in Turn Coat, I think I can recall two mentions of Michael in passing but nothing that gave any significant information on his recovery. He showed up in the short story _The Warrior_. On his feet, if with a cane IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/72 "2010-05-21T00:19:12Z")
Am I the only one here concerned about Mister? I know Molly and Mouse are going to pair up until they can get back with Harry, but Mister??? Maybe he’ll turn up with Billy and the Alphas. Hey, I’m a cat guy, that matters to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/73 "2010-05-21T14:38:54Z")
Yeah, but Mister can take care of himself. I’m _sure_ he can. _crosses fingers_ ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/74 "2010-05-21T15:59:57Z")
> [@Mr Bus Guy](#): > > Am I the only one here concerned about Mister? I know Molly and Mouse are going to pair up until they can get back with Harry, but Mister??? > > Maybe he’ll turn up with Billy and the Alphas. > > Hey, I’m a cat guy, that matters to me. Me too. Er, cat-lover, that is. Not a guy. Things don’t happen to Mister; _Mister_ happens. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/75 "2010-05-21T16:56:27Z")
I just finished this, and while I enjoyed it, I agree with **wintertime** ’s comments. The lack of character development in this book was disappointing. Harry’s friends, particularly Murphy, exist simply to fight at Harry’s side, give him pep talks, and maybe exchange a bit of light banter. The book was one long action scene. The power creep is getting ridiculous. All of the characters are nearly invulnerable, and the fight scenes aren’t as much fun as they used to be. And what’s with the goddamned cliffhanger ending? Are there readers out there who send mail to these authors begging for cliffhanger endings? Or have the book publishers done some kind of study indicating that they improve sales for the sequels? I think they’re annoying and disrespectful to the reader. I saw Susan’s death coming, and I thought it was appropriate for the story. For all the fighting, this is a remarkably “safe” series - Butcher rarely kills anyone off. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/76 "2010-05-21T17:01:21Z")
I’m not sure those criticisms are exactly accurate. That is, I’m pretty sure they were deliberate affectations by Butcher to pull readers out of the happy groove they’d tucked themselves into for the previous 11 books, which had a broad formula that Changes didn’t follow at all. It was disconcerting because it was meant to be. There was little characterization because the characterization was done in the previous 11 books; this was the climax and closure of a few very large story arcs. I do agree that it seemed hastily done and had weird pacing. But I think Butcher had a reason for it being so, and as long as I believe that I’m quite happy to see where it leads. ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/77 "2010-05-21T17:24:22Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > I just finished this, and while I enjoyed it, I agree with **wintertime** ’s comments. The lack of character development in this book was disappointing. Harry’s friends, particularly Murphy, exist simply to fight at Harry’s side, give him pep talks, and maybe exchange a bit of light banter. The book was one long action scene. > > The power creep is getting ridiculous. All of the characters are nearly invulnerable, and the fight scenes aren’t as much fun as they used to be. > > And what’s with the goddamned cliffhanger ending? Are there readers out there who send mail to these authors begging for cliffhanger endings? Or have the book publishers done some kind of study indicating that they improve sales for the sequels? I think they’re annoying and disrespectful to the reader. > > I saw Susan’s death coming, and I thought it was appropriate for the story. For all the fighting, this is a remarkably “safe” series - Butcher rarely kills anyone off. I agree with all of this and thought that this was one of the weaker books in the series. There should have been some character development in this novel. Also, the plot point of the Grey council seems to just surface and disappear…Harry seems to do no investigation into this between books. Seems unbelievable. I agree with the power creep question. Finally the cliffhanger ending was absolutely not necessary and does seem to be a trend. I agree that it is annoying and (IMHO) cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/78 "2010-05-21T18:06:58Z")
I’m okay with the “changes” in this book, and the deviation from the formula. I think Butcher normally does a good job of making each entry in the series a satisfying individual novel while still advancing the overall story arc. With this book, both the beginning and the ending were so abrupt. We jumped immediately into action and then we’re cut off at the end without any closure. I’d have appreciated another chapter or two to wrap things up a little. Why not let us know what happened to Mister, and Molly and Mouse? The bullet-in-the-chest cliffhanger was so unnecessary, with everything else to anticipate in the next book. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/79 "2010-06-05T01:47:58Z")
Another loose thread that maybe I just missed: On the way to Chichen Itza, Harry stops, whispers something to Susan. She disappears for a few minutes, shows back up, whispers in his ear; he continues. I was expecting that to be something significant, some mystery that Harry had solved that would tie in the disguised assassin. But I don’t remember anything having come of it. Did I miss something? Overall I quite enjoyed it, and I completely understand the impulse to throw it across the room. Not many books make me feel like that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069/80 "2010-06-05T02:08:48Z")
Speaking of easy-to miss features; something that I think Harry missed - he certainly didn’t mention it even in internal monologue. There was speculation earlier in the book over why some vamps were trying to kill him right off when supposedly the agenda was to make him suffer; there was speculation that it was faction fighting in the Red Court. But when he was briefly held by the two crazy vampires one of them mentioned “the Circle” - which just happens to apparently be the Black Council’s name for itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-butcher-fans-the-new-dresden-shipped-today-open-spoilers/535069.md?page=5)