# Jim Webb to give the Dem's response to Bush's speech
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [January 23, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161 "2007-01-23T22:21:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/21 "2007-01-24T04:41:33Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
**Mr. Moto** : I don’t want to hijack my own thread further, so I’ll just say that’s blatant, partisan hypocrisy on your part.
[/QUOTE]
But it’s the message that is hypocritical. Mr. Moto is just the messenger, so don’t blame him.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/22 "2007-01-24T05:03:39Z")
Are you still all upset that we Pennsylvanians showed your buddy Rick to the curb, **Moto**? I applauded when I heard about Webb’s exchange with Bush at that reception. It was well past due for someone to give that man the cut direct…
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/23 "2007-01-24T10:36:19Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
Being a Virginian, I’ve been watching Senator Webb for a while now. Frankly I can’t decide whether he’s slightly unbalanced or just a huge asshole.
That stunt at the White House where he was insufferably rude to President Bush is instructive. If he wasn’t inclined to be civil, he should have declined the invitation. It would have been the gentlemanly thing to do.
The fact that he didn’t do this, and instead made a spectacle of himself, says much about him, and not a lot good.
[/QUOTE]
Bush was rude to Webb, rather than the other way around. And it’s especially rude for a host to be rude like that to his guests.
If you’re going to behave like a jerk to your company, you shouldn’t throw parties.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/24 "2007-01-24T10:39:53Z")
An honest mistake by CNN: before they corrected the graphic under Webb’s pic, [it said](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/24/02923/6095):
> [@](#):
>
> Virginia Sen. Jim Webb, whose son is serving in Vietnam, beat Republican George Allen in November’s elections.
Anyone could make that mistake. No harm, no foul. 😃
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/25 "2007-01-24T11:26:32Z")
On [Webb’s speech](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/23/sotu.webb.transcript/index.html) itself, thought this passage cut to the heart of things:
> [@](#):
>
> Like so many other Americans, today and throughout our history, we serve and have served, not for political reasons, but because we love our country. On the political issues, those matters of war and peace, and in some cases of life and death, we trusted the judgment of our national leaders. We hoped that they would be right, that they would measure with accuracy the value of our lives against the enormity of the national interest that might call upon us to go into harm’s way.
>
> We owed them our loyalty, as Americans, and we gave it. **But they owed us sound judgment, clear thinking, concern for our welfare, a guarantee that the threat to our country was equal to the price we might be called upon to pay in defending it.**
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/26 "2007-01-24T14:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
**Mr. Moto** : I don’t want to hijack my own thread further, so I’ll just say that’s blatant, partisan hypocrisy on your part.
[/QUOTE]
I have to disagree. Note my defense of Adrian Fenty above.
There are people I disagree with in the Senate on many issues, including the war, but most Senators have enough class to speak civilly to the president when the occasion demands it. Hillary Clinton does so. Ted Kennedy does so. Barack Obama didn’t make a comparable scene at receptions with Bush, did he?
I disagreed with Bill Clinton on many issues, and supported his impeachment, but on the single occasion when I happened to meet him, I shook his hand and said hello.
Jim Webb is my senator, for better or worse, and I don’t think it is too much to ask for better behavior from him. After all, he is supposed to represent me.
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### Author:  [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/27 "2007-01-24T14:26:18Z")
The idea that Webb was rude to Bush is complete partisan hackery. If Bush was honestly concerned about Webb’s son, he would have recognized the concern of a father and said something along the lines that he hopes they can all be out of Iraq as soon as possible, as long as the mission is done, or some such.
But he chose to be a dick about it, and got a well-deserved rebuke. Or do you defend Bush’s petulant and snippy comeback of “That’s not what I asked you?” Is that the kind of respect and decorum that is okay with you, **Mr. Moto**? In my book, respect is commanded, not demanded, and people who don’t earn it don’t get it.
Bush has done nothing but prop himself up on the shoulders of other heroes, while having shirked away his own opportunity to be one himself. False concern and sympathy to pre-screened townhall groups is one thing, false concern in the face of a father and military veteran himself is another.
I welcome with great respect people like Jim Webb as leaders.
To respond more directly to **John Mace’s** OP, I liked the response, and it was in keeping with the respect I have for Jim Webb. I think Democrats like him and Jon Tester will tend to redefine “straight talk” into something more consistent with our everyday connotations of the term.
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/28 "2007-01-24T15:50:16Z")
If your son were severely ill as a result of some act of malpractice on my part, it would be the height of rudeness for me to greet you with “How’s your son?”.
> [@](#):
>
> Behavior like that is itself a message, and not a particularly nice one.
I get it: when you disagree with a _messenger_, then his behavior constitutes a message.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/29 "2007-01-24T15:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
…Jim Webb is my senator, for better or worse, and I don’t think it is too much to ask for better behavior from him. After all, he is supposed to represent me.
[/QUOTE]
Jim Webb represents all the people of Virginia. Perhaps you are in the minority.
I have no problem with his response to Bush’s snippy question. It’s unfortunate that Bush has been protected from “unpleasantness” for so long.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/30 "2007-01-24T15:59:48Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly]
On [Webb’s speech](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/23/sotu.webb.transcript/index.html) itself, thought this passage cut to the heart of things:
[/QUOTE]
Wes, that was very well put. What did you think about the domestic policy part of his speech-- are you on boards with what he was talking about? I have to admit that it wasn’t clear what he was proposing to do about the “problems” he highlighted.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/31 "2007-01-24T16:02:07Z")
Circumstances pretty much demanded a degree of vagueness, since he was recording his remarks in advance of the actual speech he was responding to. Before he heard it. Nurse? Nurse?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/32 "2007-01-24T16:09:40Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Wes, that was very well put. What did you think about the domestic policy part of his speech-- are you on boards with what he was talking about? I have to admit that it wasn’t clear what he was proposing to do about the “problems” he highlighted.
[/QUOTE]
And that was supposed to be “Yes”, not “Wes”. I have no idea what caused that…
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/33 "2007-01-24T16:17:51Z")
I’d’ve liked it better if Jim Webb had sung it.
_By the time we got to Bagdhad he was smirking,
Bush thought he had this one wrapped, with a bow.
He smiled when he thought he was a hero
But he blew that one so many years ago._
What? Wrong Jim Webb?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/34 "2007-01-24T16:19:46Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto]
Behavior like that is itself a message, and not a particularly nice one.
[/QUOTE]
A **nice** message would not have been appropriate.
No more than it was appropriate for Dem Congresscritters to stand and applaud last night.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/35 "2007-01-24T16:19:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
And that was supposed to be “Yes”, not “Wes”. I have no idea what caused that…
[/QUOTE]
I warned you. “The brown barrels are a bummer, man!” Owsley, my ass!
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/36 "2007-01-24T16:27:27Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone]
_By the time we got to Bagdhad he was smirking,
Bush thought he had this one wrapped, with a bow.
He smiled when he thought he was a hero
But he blew that one so many years ago._
[/QUOTE]
::applause::
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/37 "2007-01-24T17:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
What did you think about the domestic policy part of his speech-- are you on boards with what he was talking about? I have to admit that it wasn’t clear what he was proposing to do about the “problems” he highlighted.
[/QUOTE]
His only specific domestic policy prescription was the minimum wage increase - did you notice that Bush made no mention of that whatsoever in his speech? - and I’m all for that, of course.
I agree with Webb that the wealth of this country should be more widely shared than it is. I’m looking forward to seeing what he prescribes in the way of solutions.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/38 "2007-01-24T17:51:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
And that was supposed to be “Yes”, not “Wes”. I have no idea what caused that…
[/QUOTE]
What a craven response.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/39 "2007-01-24T17:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=tdn]
What a craven response.
[/QUOTE]
::groan::
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jim-webb-to-give-the-dems-response-to-bushs-speech/389161/40 "2007-01-24T18:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly]
::groan::
[/QUOTE]
Oh, come on. We were all thinking it.
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