# Jimmy Carter: Basic requirements for a fair election are missing in Florida **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519 "2004-09-28T17:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/1 "2004-09-28T17:24:33Z")
From the Washington Post, September 27, 2004, by former President Jimmy Carter, [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52800-2004Sep26.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52800-2004Sep26.html) (registration required but free); also available at the website of the Carter Center, [http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1832.htm:](http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1832.htm:) > [@](#): > > After the debacle in Florida four years ago, former president Gerald Ford and I were asked to lead a blue-ribbon commission to recommend changes in the American electoral process. After months of concerted effort by a dedicated and bipartisan group of experts, we presented unanimous recommendations to the president and Congress. The government responded with the Help America Vote Act of October 2002. Unfortunately, however, many of the act’s key provisions have not been implemented because of inadequate funding or political disputes. > > The disturbing fact is that a repetition of the problems of 2000 now seems likely, even as many other nations are conducting elections that are internationally certified to be transparent, honest and fair. > > \ > > . . . [S]ome basic international requirements for a fair election are missing in Florida. > > The most significant of these requirements are: > > • A nonpartisan electoral commission or a trusted and nonpartisan official who will be responsible for organizing and conducting the electoral process before, during and after the actual voting takes place. Although rarely perfect in their objectivity, such top administrators are at least subject to public scrutiny and responsible for the integrity of their decisions. Florida voting officials have proved to be highly partisan, brazenly violating a basic need for an unbiased and universally trusted authority to manage all elements of the electoral process. > > • Uniformity in voting procedures, so that all citizens, regardless of their social or financial status, have equal assurance that their votes are cast in the same way and will be tabulated with equal accuracy. Modern technology is already in use that makes electronic voting possible, with accurate and almost immediate tabulation and with paper ballot printouts so all voters can have confidence in the integrity of the process. There is no reason these proven techniques, used overseas and in some U.S. states, could not be used in Florida. > > It was obvious that in 2000 these basic standards were not met in Florida, and there are disturbing signs that once again, as we prepare for a presidential election, some of the state’s leading officials hold strong political biases that prevent necessary reforms. > > Four years ago, the top election official, Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, was also the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney state campaign committee. The same strong bias has become evident in her successor, Glenda Hood, who was a highly partisan elector for George W. Bush in 2000. Several thousand ballots of African Americans were thrown out on technicalities in 2000, and a fumbling attempt has been made recently to disqualify 22,000 African Americans (likely Democrats), but only 61 Hispanics (likely Republicans), as alleged felons. So, what do you think? Is Jimmy C. right or wrong? Can we have a fair, honest election in Florida this November or not? There’s been some more recent irregularies here, too. From Greg Palast’s website, story dated August 31, 2004, [http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=366&row=1:](http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=366&row=1:) > [@](#): > > [News Flash - Tuesday midnight: Theresa LePore has just lost re-election to Democrat Art Anderson. The challenger ran on a platform opposing LePore’s paperless voting machines. Wipe that grin off your face: the notorious “Madame Butterfly Ballot” remains to supervise, in her unique manner, the presidential vote in November. The following investigative report, written days before the neck-and-neck election is a cautionary tale about the dangers to the integrity of the millions of absentee ballots and paperless computer votes likely to decide the White House race. Read on …] > > On Friday, Theresa LePore, Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach, candidate for re-election as Supervisor of Elections, chose to supervise her own election, no one allowed. This Tuesday, Florida votes for these nominally non-partisan posts. > > You remember Theresa, “Madame Butterfly,” the one whose ballots brought in the big vote for Pat Buchanan in the Jewish precincts in November 2000. Then she failed to do the hand count that would have changed the White House from Red to Blue. > > This time, Theresa’s in a hurry to get to the counting. She began tallying absentee ballots on Friday in her own re-election race. Not to worry: the law requires the Supervisor of Elections in each county to certify poll-watchers to observe the count. > > But Theresa has a better idea. She refused to certify a single poll-watcher from opponents’ organizations despite the legal requirement she do so by last week. She’ll count her own votes herself, thank you very much! > > And so far, she’s doing quite well. Although 37,000 citizens have requested absentee ballots, she says she’d only received 22,000 when she began the count. Where are the others? Don’t ask: though she posts the names of requesters, she won’t release the list of those who have voted, an eyebrow-raising deviation from standard procedure. > > And she has no intention of counting all the ballots received. She has reserved for herself the right to determine which ballots have acceptable signatures. Her opponent, Democrat Art Anderson, had asked Theresa to use certified hand-writing experts, instead of her hand-picked hacks, to check the signatures. > > Unfortunately, while Federal law requires Theresa to allow a voter to correct a signature rejection when registering, the Feds don’t require her to permit challenges to absentee ballot rejections. > > I know what you’re thinking. How could Madame Butterfly know how people are voting? Well, she’s printed PARTY AFFILIATION on the OUTSIDE of each return envelope. That certainly makes it easier to figure out which ballot is valid, don’t it? I’m relieved she lost anyway, but still . . . ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/2 "2004-09-28T17:43:20Z")
The question I’d more like to ask is this: When was it in America that which party won the election became more important than the sanctity of the democratic process? I mean, didn’t you guys used to care about _democracy_. How can this be allowed to happen? And happen again after it’s already happened once? I’m sure a few people will bitch and whine, but this sort of thing should be causing riots all over Florida. Does no-one really give much of a toss anymore? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/3 "2004-09-28T17:57:15Z")
Jimmy Carter is a man of unquestionable integrity. If he says something, I take it to the bank. The Florida electoral system is an absolute shambles. Nothing that they can come up with surprises me. Ex prisoners get their voting rights challenged, but only if they are black. They fight tooth and nail NOT to have a paper trail on electronic ballots. Someone counts the ballots in their own election? Come on, how crooked can one state be? ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/4 "2004-09-28T18:15:11Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > The question I’d more like to ask is this: > > When was it in America that which party won the election became more important than the sanctity of the democratic process? About 1798, if not earlier. The United States has a long history of electoral fraud, manipulation and corruption. Still, the system works most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/5 "2004-09-28T18:20:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Jimmy Carter is a man of unquestionable integrity. Not quite true. Sorry. If his integrity were unquestionable, he wouldn’t be writing speeches for Yasser Arafat and making nice with dictators all over the world. He similarly wouldn’t be persuing his goals at the expense of American foreign policy, infuriating Democratic and Republican administrations alike. He certified the election in Venezuela after only a cursory check, despite evidence of massive voter fraud bu Chavez forces all over the country. Forgive me if I don’t have as much faith in his integrity as you have. ---
**Author:** ![esquimalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@esquimalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/esquimalt)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/6 "2004-09-28T18:29:02Z")
Interesting that Palast doesn’t mention Lepore ran as a Democrat in 1996 & 2000 & then changed to “no party affiliation” after the 2000 election. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/7 "2004-09-28T18:32:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, what do you think? That Jimmy is a well-meaning and incompetent dolt, given unwarranted delusions of adequacy by being awarded the Nobel Prize by a committee more interested in taking political pot shots at Bush than genuine merit. He’s a partisan, trying in advance to discredit a likely Bush win and set up yet another round of whining, as in 2000. Remember him telling us that Zell Miller was a traitor for being insufficiently [partisan?](http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=26628) And he is the one complaining that the Florida Secretary of State obeyed the law? Jimmy is a very nice man, but he was a very bad President, and now that Reagan is dead, he is doing his best to get revenge on the Republicans who trounced him. For heaven’s sake, this is the guy who came within a whisker of being beat by Jerry Ford after Ford pardoned Nixon. Iran, North Korea, Florida - anyone who takes Carter’s advice seriously on anything but peanut farming and building houses for poor people deserves whatever they get. Thank God we only got four years of it back during the 70s. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/8 "2004-09-28T18:40:03Z")
Damn those political potshots! Damn them I say! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/9 "2004-09-28T18:44:48Z")
Jimmy Carter brought the Egyptians and Israelis together and brought peace between those two nations. Egypt got the Sinai back without bloodshed. The Nobel Prizes were a just reward for those involved. Jimmy Carter treated other nations with respect, notably in the negotiations to cede the Panama Canal to Panama while Reagan was calling it the American Canal in Panama. If the American people had chosen correctly in 1980, the Reagan-Bush deficits would never have happened and the national debt would be a fraction of what it is today. Our economy would be stronger and America would be both more liked and respected throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/10 "2004-09-28T18:46:05Z")
**Shodan** , is there any of the substantive points made that you wish to dispute or is it just the political pot shots for you too? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/11 "2004-09-28T19:13:45Z")
Are any of you going to contest my points? Jimmy Carter has his virtues, but he has his vices as well. The man is not a saint. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/12 "2004-09-28T19:22:59Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Are any of you going to contest my points? > > Jimmy Carter has his virtues, but he has his vices as well. The man is not a saint. Think what you will, I’m confident that history will be kind to Mr. Carter. In my opinion, he is in the top 5 of the 20th century presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/13 "2004-09-28T19:42:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Think what you will, I’m confident that history will be kind to Mr. Carter. In my opinion, he is in the top 5 of the 20th century presidents. Bwahahaha! Misery index! Malaise! Desert One! Killer rabbits! Twenty percent interest for a shitty car! Waiting in a gas line after paying that twenty percent! Not being able to do that the next day, because of the rationing! Yeah, those were _boom_ years! History has already judged Mr. Carter. That’s why he’s been scrambling for a Nobel Peace Prize, so that history’s judgement will be tempered somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/14 "2004-09-28T19:43:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Think what you will, I’m confident that history will be kind to Mr. Carter. In my opinion, he is in the top 5 of the 20th century presidents. And certainly a better president than Nixon, Ford, **Reagan,** Bush I and Bush II. And it has truly been said of him that he is the first politician in American history to use the presidency as a springboard to higher things. And if he’s not a saint, he’s the closest thing we’ve had in the White House since anyone now living can remember. I got the idea for this thread when I heard Greg Palast interviewed on my local community radio station (WMNF 88.5 FM “Not a member of the Big Brother Broadcasting Network!”) this afternoon, and he mentioned Carter’s editorial. He also said that the media is ignoring the fact that thousands of Florida voters who were disfranchised by the fraudulent “felons list” in 2000 are **still off the voting rolls.** I didn’t know that and can’t find a cite at the moment. Does anybody know if this is true? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/15 "2004-09-28T19:51:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And certainly a better president than Nixon, Ford, **Reagan,** Bush I and Bush II. You’ll have to show me a non-partisan site that lists Carter as a better president than Reagan. [C-SPAN’s](http://www.americanpresidents.org/survey/historians/performance.asp) ranking lists Reagan #12 and Carter #24. Reagan was re-elected by a landslide. Carter was( rightly) kicked out during his re-election bid. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/16 "2004-09-28T20:05:31Z")
Once again we go after the accuser rather than the wrongdoer. I suppose all this Carter-bashing means that the Florida elections will have air-tight integrety after all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/17 "2004-09-28T20:20:49Z")
Exactly, **sqweels**. How 'bout we ignore the messenger, and critically examine if the message is accurate? I don’t care if Charles Manson says the situation in Florida wouldn’t pass international inspection - what’s the evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/18 "2004-09-28T20:21:43Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Bwahahaha! > > Misery index! Malaise! Desert One! Killer rabbits! > > Twenty percent interest for a shitty car! > > Waiting in a gas line after paying that twenty percent! > > Not being able to do that the next day, because of the rationing! > > Yeah, those were _boom_ years! > > History has already judged Mr. Carter. That’s why he’s been scrambling for a Nobel Peace Prize, so that history’s judgement will be tempered somewhat. Camp David Accords. Panama Canal Treaty. Habitat for Humanity. Perhaps, if he had been reelected-September 11 would never have happened. No one to step up arming those who would become the Taliban in Afghanistan. No Iran-Contra. No Gulf War and Saddam Hussein. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/19 "2004-09-28T20:35:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Perhaps, if he had been reelected-September 11 would never have happened. No one to step up arming those who would become the Taliban in Afghanistan. No Iran-Contra. No Gulf War and Saddam Hussein. Wishful thinking IMHO…except (perhaps) the Iran-Contra thing. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And certainly a better president than Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II. Depends on your definition of ‘better’. Certainly I rank him above Ford, and probably Nixion…but the rest? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Think what you will, I’m confident that history will be kind to Mr. Carter. In my opinion, he is in the top 5 of the 20th century presidents. No chance…he’ll be middle or lower in the pack of Presidents. His best bet is to be ranks high or even at the top of EX-Presidents. He’s certainly been a better ex-President than he ever was in office. 🙂 To the OP. > [@](#): > > Jimmy Carter: Basic requirements for a fair election are missing in Florida Well, leaving aside the question of whether Carter is A) Unbiased ( :dubious: ), B) Qualified and C) Knowledgable enough to make a solid determination, I’d have to say that, with certain qualifiers, I DO think there will be a ‘fair’ election in Florida. Most of my qualifiers boil down to ‘fair’ being equal to ‘as fair as in any other state in the Union, within a certain small margin’. Understand that election shanagans have been going on in the US for ever, and neither sides hands are clean. Dirty tricks abound…they always have and probably always will, as a fool proof, un-corruptable and ‘fair’ election process is probably beyond humans capability to create…people will ALWAYS look for ways to cheat. All we can hope for is that such things are kept to a minimum and that they balance out in the end…and that we don’t have yet another close, down to the wire election this time so that we don’t have to hear 4 more years of whinning. At this point I really don’t care which of the two major candidates win (my candidate probably won’t even get 2% of the vote so it doesn’t matter to me)…as long as they win big. -XT ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/20 "2004-09-28T20:54:31Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > TRemember him telling us that Zell Miller was a traitor for being insufficiently [partisan?](http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=26628) “Insufficiently partisan”?!?! Yeah, right. He wasn’t accusing him of being insufficiently partisan. He was accusing him of being extremely partisan, so partisan in fact that he lied and made wild and false accusations: > [@](#): > > “Perhaps more troublesome of all is seeing you adopt an established and very effective Republican campaign technique of destroying the character of opponents by wild and false allegations.” > > He went on to accuse Miller of having “lies and obfuscation over the truth, and the political technique of personal character assassination as a way to win elections or to garner a few moments of applause.” All because Zell is still in the Democratic Party does not mean that you get to characterize him as an “insufficiently partisan” Democrat when in fact what he is, in all but name, is a very partisan Republican. As I pointed out in the thread about Zell’s speech at the RNC, he has not just broken with the Democrats on a few issues…He has broken with them across the board. For example, he has supported Bush’s economic policy including all aspects of the tax cuts and his LCV (league of conservation voters) rating for the past few years puts him on par with Sen. James “Global warming is a hoax” Inhofe who is pretty much evil-incarnate for the environment. It is far far below that of many Republicans like McCain, Snowe, Gregg, … [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519.md?page=2)