# Jimmy Carter: Basic requirements for a fair election are missing in Florida **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519 "2004-09-28T17:24:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/141 "2004-10-04T17:01:35Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > ( **Yojimbo** linked to the same piece in post #57 - got little response…) Sorry, Aro - I didn’t read the whole thread before I posted. Mea culpa!! Don’t know why so little response though - unless it was because it didn’t provide an opportunity to change the topic to Carter. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/142 "2004-10-04T18:39:15Z")
The opportunity to vote is the opportunity to change the system that incarcerated one in the first place. When there is a grossly high and disproportionate incarceration rate of a racial group, then the system needs to be changed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/143 "2004-10-04T19:39:32Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > The opportunity to vote is the opportunity to change the system that incarcerated one in the first place. When there is a grossly high and disproportionate incarceration rate of a racial group, then the system needs to be changed. Agreed – but there’s no way to get that done before November. A paper trail on the touchscreens is something we **might** get in place before November, if Congressman Wexler wins his lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/144 "2004-10-04T23:16:15Z")
Sigh . . . here’s an update from today’s (10/4/03) _St. Petersburg Times_ – yet another sign something’s wrong with these goddamn touchscreen machines – [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/04/Tampabay/Voting\_mystery\_stirs\_.shtml:](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/04/Tampabay/Voting_mystery_stirs_.shtml:) > [@](#): > > TAMPA - In the Aug. 31 primary, the population of a small town - 12,498 voters - appeared at the polls in Hillsborough County and apparently decided not to vote in the race for state attorney. > > No one is sure why those voters didn’t vote, or if they did, what might have happened to their votes. > > Local residents declined to vote in even greater numbers in Hillsborough races for property appraiser, School Board and some judges. In fact, the “undervote” - the phenomenon in which citizens push an activation card into a touch screen voting machine but have no vote tallied for one or more races - was significantly higher in Hillsborough than in many other large Florida counties. > > Palm Beach County, which uses the same Sequoia Voting Systems machines as Hillsborough, saw an undervote ranging from 3.1 percent to 8.4 percent of voter turnout, depending on the race. Broward, which uses optical scan voting machines, had an undervote of 6.4 percent on the one race open to all voters. > > Hillsborough’s undervote on countywide contests ranged from 9 percent in the race that re-elected State Attorney Mark Ober, to a whopping 17.5 percent in the race in which Charles “Ed” Bergmann was elected circuit judge. > > In Pinellas County, which uses Sequoia machines, the undervote on countywide contests ranged from 9.1 percent in a School Board race to 13 percent in a judicial contest. > > The question is: Why? > > Are voters refusing to vote? Or are votes not registering on electronic machines? > > \ > > Buddy Johnson, Hillsborough’s supervisor of elections, attributed the glitches to human error and believes voters should have complete confidence in the touch screen machines. > > Johnson believes undervoting occurs when voters decline to vote because they know little about a race, or when they simply want to send a message that they don’t care for any of the candidates on a particular slate. > > “People just undervote,” Johnson said. > > Rob MacKenna, an Eckerd Corp. computer programmer who is the Democratic challenger to Johnson, strongly disagrees. To address the undervote question, he says, local government must pay for a paper-trail audit system as both a check on the electronic voting system and a boost to voter confidence. > > MacKenna’s skepticism about the cause of the undervote stems from the presidential preference primary last March, where a single question was listed on the ballot but where 255 Hillsborough voters, or 0.76 percent of the turnout, had no vote tabulated. Had 255 residents driven to the polls, signed in, walked to the touch screen machine, then decided to abandon the whole idea? > > MacKenna refuses to believe it. > > The big question is, are we losing people’s votes?" MacKenna said. “That’s what the preliminary data seems to suggest. And that’s the No. 1 thing we can’t have.” > > Last month, MacKenna flew to a vendors show in Las Vegas to see audit printers manufactured by Sequoia. The shoe box-sized devices fit on the side of a voting machine and display a roll of audit paper under a fixed pane of glass. > > The printer has cash register-style paper, easily visible to the voter, which displays the vote. It also generates a bar code that can be used with an optical scanner for recounts and election audits. Surprisingly, MacKenna said, voters who use machines with printers vote faster, apparently because they readily see their vote result and don’t try to backtrack. > > \ > > But don’t look for the audit printers at the Nov. 2 general election. The printers haven’t been certified by the state of Florida and can’t be ready by election day. We need a wider range of smileys on this board. Neither :mad: nor :eek: nor ☹ quite does it for me at this moment. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/145 "2004-10-05T00:57:38Z")
Wow. It just keeps getting better. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/146 "2004-10-05T04:54:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Agreed – but there’s no way to get that done before November. A paper trail on the touchscreens is something we **might** get in place before November, if Congressman Wexler wins his lawsuit. How is touching a screen next to a name different than punching a card next to a name? The punch ballet will continue to be the cheapest and most realiable method of voting created. Instead of wasting millions of dollars on machines that are subject to programming fraud, we could spend a fraction of that money to explain how to cleanly punch a ballot. Because if that is too difficult, then dealing with a computer will require even more training for the voting-challenged. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/147 "2004-10-05T13:47:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is touching a screen next to a name different than punching a card next to a name? The punch ballet will continue to be the cheapest and most realiable method of voting created. Instead of wasting millions of dollars on machines that are subject to programming fraud, we could spend a fraction of that money to explain how to cleanly punch a ballot. Because if that is too difficult, then dealing with a computer will require even more training for the voting-challenged. Cheaper and more reliable than a paper-and-pen ballot? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/148 "2004-10-05T14:37:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is touching a screen next to a name different than punching a card next to a name? The punch ballet will continue to be the cheapest and most realiable method of voting created. Instead of wasting millions of dollars on machines that are subject to programming fraud, we could spend a fraction of that money to explain how to cleanly punch a ballot. Because if that is too difficult, then dealing with a computer will require even more training for the voting-challenged. Under the circumstances, I’d be only too happy to see every county in Florida go back to using punchcard or paper ballots for this election. But since they’ve already **bought** the touchscreen machines, you can’t expect them to just stack them in a closet and bring out the old punchcards. An expensive new toy demands to be played with. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/149 "2004-10-05T14:49:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But since they’ve already **bought** the touchscreen machines, you can’t expect them to just stack them in a closet and bring out the old punchcards. An expensive new toy demands to be played with. That is exactly what happened here in Ireland. 53 Million Euro was spent on a new electronic system but due to a lot of concerns about a lack of audit trail etc. the public and the press started a campaign against the new system. A Commission on Electronic Voting was set up and they recommended that it be put on hold until a lot of questions were answered. This was very embarrassing to the government who had been really pushing it but they still took it on the chin as fair and free elections were of the up most importance. YMMV naturally 😃 > **[Ireland to scrap e-voting plan](https://www.theregister.com/2004/04/30/ireland_evote/)** > > Accuracy and secrecy in question ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/150 "2004-10-05T15:34:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Under the circumstances, I’d be only too happy to see every county in Florida go back to using punchcard or paper ballots for this election. But since they’ve already **bought** the touchscreen machines, you can’t expect them to just stack them in a closet and bring out the old punchcards. An expensive new toy demands to be played with. I suppose you could give them to a nation where fair elections are not required and call it foreign aid. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/151 "2004-10-06T00:22:13Z")
Two more developments just today (10/5/04): SOS Glenda Hood says that thousands of voter registration forms collected during last-minute registration drives have to be rejected because the signers did not check a box stating they are U.S. citizens. [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/05/State/Box\_may\_prevent\_hundr.shtml;](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/05/State/Box_may_prevent_hundr.shtml;) [http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836740.htm](http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836740.htm) In Leon County (where the state capital, Tallahassee, is located), the Supervisor of Elections, Ion Sancho, is asking the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate possible fraud in connection with 1,500 photocopied registration forms his office received, without the originals. Most of these apparently were collected at a traditionally black state university, FAMU – but most of the signers named “Republican” as their party affiliation, which appears rather suspicious to Sanchez. [http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836814.htm](http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836814.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/152 "2004-10-06T00:30:48Z")
:smack: Sorry, the link to that second story is [http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836814.htm](http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/local/9836814.htm). Preview . . . Preview is your friend . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/153 "2004-10-08T21:57:21Z")
Update: Even though SOS Glenda Hood has ruled thousands of new voter registrations improper because the signer failed to check the “I am a U.S. citizen” box, several county supervisors of elections have decided to ignore her and register the voters. From the Election Protection page of the People for the American Way Foundation – [http://www.electionprotection2004.org/:](http://www.electionprotection2004.org/:) > [@](#): > > People For the American Way Foundation (PFAWF) today asked Florida election officials to reverse a decision to throw out thousands of otherwise valid voter registrations simply because applicants forgot to check a box indicating that they are U.S. citizens. > > The New York Times and the Orlando Sentinel reported this weekend that Secretary of State Glenda Hood’s office issued the decision, which could affect more than 4,000 voters in Orange County alone. PFAWF President Ralph G Neas and General Counsel Elliot Mincberg wrote Hood and Elections Director Dawn Roberts today, asking them to overturn their instructions to county elections officials to deny the applications, and warning they would take legal action if the decision is not reversed. > > Simply by signing the form, these voters are saying that they are citizens. They deserve the right to vote," said Neas. “They want to make a difference in this election, and this is their last chance.” > > Today was the deadline for voter registrations in Florida, and any applications that arrive later will not be valid until next year’s elections. If Hood will not reverse the decision, PFAWF will argue in court that a signed form is a signed affirmation of citizenship, and that any signed and otherwise valid registration form should be accepted and the registration processed in time for the November election. > > “Some counties have been processing the applications, and we urge them to continue,” said Mincberg. “They’re taking the application of the voter in good faith, and that’s the right thing to do.” Meanwhile, in Duval-County Jacksonville, where more than **27,000** ballots, mostly from African-American precincts, were tossed out as “spoiled” in 2000, black activists are standing up to local election officials – but the officials aren’t backing down. From the _St. Petersburg Times,_ October 8, 2004 – [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/08/Decision2004/Duval\_symbolizes\_blac.shtml:](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/08/Decision2004/Duval_symbolizes_blac.shtml:) > [@](#): > > JACKSONVILLE - This Navy town bills itself the “Bold New City of the South,” and the shiny skyscrapers, riverside cafes and stadium preparing to host the 2005 Super Bowl attest to the claim. > > But the scene at the Duval elections office this week looked more 1964 than 2004: > > Nearly a dozen African-American civil rights leaders stood at a counter, demanding the white elections boss help them ensure that as many of their constituents as possible can vote. > > Tightening his lips, the voting official curtly replied that they were out of luck. No, he could not try to correct voter registration forms that were turned in incomplete. No, he would not consider opening early voting offices convenient for African-American neighborhoods. > > “So you take the position that you’re not going to do anything we want?” the Rev. Levy Wilcox asked, incredulous, at the end of a 10-minute brushoff. > > “That is correct,” responded assistant elections supervisor Dick Carlberg, standing a few feet from a “Partners in Democracy” banner. > > \ > > No county produced more spoiled ballots [in 2000] than Duval - nearly 27,000 - and they were concentrated in African-American neighborhoods. An estimated one in five black votes was tossed out in Duval, three times the rate of white votes. > > \ > > “I don’t think so, but people I know actually think the election’s fixed. They see that elections (supervisor) still in power, and don’t trust the system,” said Cornelius Johnson, a painter. “But I still think it’s going to be another record turnout in this community. People are talking about the election, and I have friends who didn’t vote in 2000 who will this year.” If they can, Mr. Johnson, if they can. Also from today’s _Times:_ The Florida Democratic Party now has four lawsuits pending against Secretary Hood – [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/08/State/New\_suit\_expands\_pre\_.shtml:](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/08/State/New_suit_expands_pre_.shtml:) > [@](#): > > TALLAHASSEE - As Florida inches closer to the presidential election, lawsuits are piling up against Secretary of State Glenda Hood. > > On Thursday, the Florida Democratic Party filed the latest in a series of lawsuits that will be heard in state and federal courtrooms over the next few days. > > The increasing number of suits is reminiscent of the 2000 election, when dozens of lawsuits were filed over a recount that saw President Bush win by 537 votes. > > Except this time the lawsuits are coming well before the Nov. 2 election. > > The courtroom battles include: > > A federal lawsuit filed in Tallahassee by Democrats challenging the way Hood’s office has handled voter registration forms. > > Hood has recommended county election officials reject forms on which voters did not check a box identifying themselves as U.S. citizens. State election officials say the forms are incomplete and cannot be accepted. > > Democrats say the forms include an oath voters sign that they are citizens. A voter who signs an untrue statment risks prosecution for perjury. > > U.S. District Judge Stephan Mickle has given lawyers for Hood until Tuesday to respond. > > A Democratic Party challenge in federal court of the rules Hood established for provisional ballots, which are used when elections officials cannot find a voter’s name on voting rolls. She says they cannot be counted unless voters file the ballot in their home precincts. Democrats say the rule violates the U.S. Constitution and federal voting laws. > > The suit, filed in federal court a week ago, alleges that Florida’s rule could block legally registered voters from having their votes count. U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle of Tallahassee will hear from lawyers for both sides today. > > A lawsuit in state court over provisional ballots, filed by labor unions, is scheduled for a hearing before the Florida Supreme Court on Wednesday. > > The unions contend Hood’s provisional ballot rules violate the Florida Constitution and state laws which require only that voters cast ballots in their home counties. Hood’s office says Florida law requires the ballots be cast in home precincts. > > A lawsuit filed by the Democratic Party in state court is scheduled for a hearing early today before Tallahassee Circuit Judge Janet Ferris. It challenges a ruling by Hood that has blocked Democrats from replacing Jim Stork, who dropped out of the race against U.S. Rep. Clay Shaw of Fort Lauderdale. > > Hood said Democrats could not replace Stork with another candidate because Stork waited until after a Sept. 21 deadline to try and withdraw. Once again, Florida is poised to be the political laughingstock of the democratic world. That is, “laughingstock” would be the appropriate word, if any of this were funny. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/154 "2004-10-08T22:16:29Z")
My path to ultimate power will be so much easier when my brother gains control of a state pivotal to the electoral college… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/155 "2004-10-08T23:51:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > My path to ultimate power will be so much easier when my brother gains control of a state pivotal to the electoral college… No disrespect intended, but I don’t think Pennsylvania is in that league anymore. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/156 "2004-10-09T00:22:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No disrespect intended, but I don’t think Pennsylvania is in that league anymore. 😉 I’m sure the Gray clan is quite capable of carpetbagging. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/157 "2004-10-09T21:26:31Z")
“Bullies at the Voting Booth,” an article by Anne-Marie Cusac in the October 2004 issue of _The Progressive_ – [http://www.progressive.org/oct04/cusac1004.html](http://www.progressive.org/oct04/cusac1004.html) – looks at the dirty tricks Republicans are using in every swing state this year to suppress the potential Democratic vote. The section on Florida provides an excellent summary of the situation here: > [@](#): > > **Florida** > > The state that started it all in 2000 is no stranger to controversy this election. In July, The Miami Herald revealed that the state issued faulty felon purge lists containing the names of 48,000 people it said were ineligible to vote. Among these were 2,100 who actually were eligible voters. Many of these people were African American Democrats. The list of 48,000 also contained only sixty-one Hispanic names. (Because of Florida’s large Cuban population, the Hispanic vote in Florida is predominantly Republican. The Florida African American vote, on the other hand, tends to be heavily Democratic.) > > In mid-August, New York Times columnist Bob Herbert revealed that the state was investigating get-out-the-vote drives among blacks in Orlando by sending armed police officers into the homes of citizens who had filed absentee ballots. Most of these citizens were African American, and many were elderly. > > And in Florida’s late August primary, representatives from People for the American Way saw poll workers turn back registered voters who neglected to bring their IDs. “Under Florida law,” noted The New York Times, “registered voters can vote without showing identification.” > > But there’s a lot more going on in the state, according to Alma Gonzalez, spokeswoman for the Voter Protection Coalition in Florida and special counsel to the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. “We keep hoping that they’ve learned from 2000,” but early indications are that they haven’t, she says. “When some of our members have gone to early voting or to register to vote, they’re being asked if they’re citizens of the United States.” Gonzalez says she has heard from “about half a dozen people, all of them in South Florida,” who approached the polls as part of the early election only to be asked their citizenship. And it’s not poll watchers who are asking, says Gonzalez. It’s “the poll workers, the duly deputized election officials.” > > Registered voters, Gonzalez points out, have already attested to their citizenship in their registration forms. “They cannot ask you your citizenship at the polling place. It’s unlawful,” says Gonzalez. “When that question is asked of you” based on your skin color or the fact that you have an accent, “it is not intended to ensure that you’re complying with the law. It’s intended to suppress voters.” > > And, even though public attention to the faulty felon voter purge lists led the Florida government to say belatedly that it would not use them this time, the word has traveled slowly. “We are still getting reports from people when they go to vote in different parts of the state,” says Gonzalez. “Apparently, there are still inaccuracies.” > > Then there’s the provisional ballot crisis. In Florida in 2000, many people who attempted to vote found that they were not on the rolls, even though they had registered. This is the reasoning behind the provisional ballot requirement in the federal Help America Vote Act. If a voter is wrongly removed from the rolls in the future, he or she should be able to file a provisional ballot. Most states interpret this part of the act as allowing provisional ballots as long as the voter files them in the correct county. > > Florida is a little different. Rather than the correct county, voters must submit their provisional ballots to the correct precinct. “This will disenfranchise thousands and thousands of voters,” says Gonzalez. > > So the AFL-CIO is suing Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood, along with two election supervisors from areas of Florida that have seen some of the largest population increases, and some of the most marked changes in precinct lines. The precinct requirements “impermissibly abridge the right to vote,” the AFL says. > > How intentional is all this on the part of Florida officials? “They’re all intentional,” Gonzalez says. “People didn’t do these things in their sleep.” Then she qualifies the point, saying the real question is, are they intentionally trying to suppress voter turnout? “I’m not going to make that allegation,” she says. “I know what the result is.” And, she points out, under the Voting Rights Act, the issue is not whether you intended to disenfranchise people, but what is the result. “These election schemes and the conduct of these officials are undermining” the rights of people to vote. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/158 "2004-10-12T20:21:44Z")
Local columnist Howard Troxler has a nice, pithy editorial in the 10/11/04 _St. Petersburg Time_ – [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/12/Columns/The\_first\_vote\_isn\_t\_.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10/12/Columns/The_first_vote_isn_t_.shtml). His take on the electronic voting machines is: > [@](#): > > ISSUE NO. 3: TOUCH SCREEN VOTING. Despite the best efforts of Hillsborough County to prove otherwise, the machines themselves work fine. They add two plus two. Each machine used in Pinellas or Hillsborough counties produces a printed summary of their vote totals, and can even print out a copy of each individual ballot recorded. > > Repeat after me: There. Is. A. Paper. Trail. > > Admittedly, there might be something about touch-screen machines that makes it easier for voters to skip a race accidentally - the so-called “undervote.” But that is human oversight, not a vote-eating software glitch. Besides, touch screens eliminate all “overvotes,” casting two votes in the same race, a much bigger problem. > > As for an Evil Conspiracy to rig the machines: Forget it. Nice to know somebody thinks so. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/159 "2004-10-16T17:10:10Z")
Update: A recent attempt to test the new voting machines in Palm Beach County failed because the server crashed. They might have to use the machines untested on e-day. From [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-1013pbvotetest,0,5193853.story?coll=sfla-news-palm:](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-1013pbvotetest,0,5193853.story?coll=sfla-news-palm:) > [@](#): > > WEST PALM BEACH – A public test of Palm Beach County’s electronic voting machines was postponed because a computer server crashed. > > Elections Supervisor Theresa LePore said a power failure during Hurricane Jeanne caused temperatures in the building to rise, which may have damaged the computer equipment. She delayed Tuesday’s test until Friday. > > \ > > `This is very troublesome, that less than three weeks away from a presidential election we have problems with these machines,'' said Lale Mamaux, spokeswoman for U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler, D-Delray Beach, a critic of electronic voting. `Let’s hope that on Friday, she’s able to run the test.’’ > > LePore, who was defeated in the Aug. 31 primary, is a defendant in a suit filed by Wexler claiming touch-screen voting machines are unconstitutional because they don’t allow manual recounts in close elections. This is the same SOE LePore who gave Palm Beach the 2000 “butterfly ballot.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519/160 "2004-10-16T17:51:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Update: A recent attempt to test the new voting machines in Palm Beach County failed because the server crashed. They might have to use the machines untested on e-day. From [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-1013pbvotetest,0,5193853.story?coll=sfla-news-palm:](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-1013pbvotetest,0,5193853.story?coll=sfla-news-palm:) > > This is the same SOE LePore who gave Palm Beach the 2000 “butterfly ballot.” :rolleyes: Thanks for continuing to post your updates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-basic-requirements-for-a-fair-election-are-missing-in-florida/266519.md?page=9)