# Jimmy Carter - was he so bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987 "2009-05-01T16:44:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/81 "2009-05-03T16:19:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Ending all-white rule in Rhodesia was clearly the right thing at the time. How is Carter responsible for how Mugabe abused his opportunities? Because there was a black leader elected that Mugabe resisted, and Carter could’ve put severe pressure on Mugabe or at least not been seen taking photo ops with him. All white rule was vastly superior to Robert Mugabe’s rule, so no if the alternative is Mugabe, then ending all-white rule was not the right thing at the time. Though it’s irrelevant since all-white rule wasn’t the alternative to Mugabe. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/82 "2009-05-03T16:26:47Z")
The face of all-white rule in Rhodesia: > **[Abel Muzorewa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Muzorewa)** > > Abel Tendekayi Muzorewa (14 April 1925 – 8 April 2010), also commonly referred to as Bishop Muzorewa, was a Zimbabwean bishop and politician who served as the first and only Prime Minister of Zimbabwe Rhodesia from the Internal Settlement to the Lancaster House Agreement in 1979. A United Methodist Church bishop and nationalist leader, he held office for only a few months. > Muzorewa was the eldest of a lay preacher's eight children and was educated at the United Methodist School, Old Umtali, n... :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/83 "2009-05-03T16:44:26Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > President Carter’s time in office was marked by very little in the way of positive accomplishments. Clearly, the biggest accomplishment was getting Egypt and Israel to come to peace terms. This shouldn’t be a surprise: it turns out that one of his strong suits is getting people with diverse outlooks to sit down and actually, you know, talk to each other to resolve differences. He probably would have made an excellent Secretary of State to some other president. Personally, I think he ought to be the S-G of the U.N. > > But other than that, his presidency had little to crow about. . Exactly. Carter is-was a great Statesman, but a poor Cheif Executive. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/84 "2009-05-03T16:49:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly. Carter is-was a great Statesman, but a poor Cheif Executive. Heh, I would say that it was the reverse. His foreign policy was his really terrible part. His Domestic policy was a sight better. I mean the Israel/Palestine stuff was a good job, though he destroyed any credibility he had on the subject since then. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/85 "2009-05-03T17:47:17Z")
For somebody who emerged from the cesspool of Georgia politics, Carter understood very little. For example, he announced to the world, that henceforth, the CIA would not act to gather information on enemies…the KGB was very grateful for this (they moved into Central America in a big way) . Carter seemed concerned that foreign governments should “like” the USA (whatever that means); he should have read Lord Palmerstone: “Nations have interests, not friends”. The iranian hostage debacle was the icing on the cake-his advisors gave the rescue attempt about a 5% chance of success-he authorized it anyway. All in all, Carter was a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/86 "2009-05-03T18:09:42Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > For example, he announced to the world, that henceforth, the CIA would not act to gather information on enemies..the KGB was very grateful for this (they moved into Central America in a big way). Cite? (And you do understand the difference between personal enemies and national enemies, don’t you? I believe the pledge you are failing to comprehend is Carter’s pledge not to use the CIA to go after _personal_ enemies, as Nixon had done.) > [@](#): > > The iranian hostage debacle was the icing on the cake- **his advisors gave the rescue attempt about a 5% chance of success** -he authorized it anyway. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/87 "2009-05-03T19:03:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Heh, I would say that it was the reverse. His foreign policy was his really terrible part. His Domestic policy was a sight better. I mean the Israel/Palestine stuff was a good job, though he destroyed any credibility he had on the subject since then. 😕 Not by [his book,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Peace_Not_Apartheid) he didn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/88 "2009-05-03T19:16:27Z")
Why didn’t Carter’s energy proposals go anywhere? I suppose one can only get so much credit for being right- it is getting things accomplished that really counts. But when it comes to energy policy, he was just about right on. Leaders since then have treated conservation and energy independence as if they were the Devil, culminating in W., The Oilman President. Reduce dependence on foreign oil? 20% of our power from solar by 2000? It would’ve been freakin’ great had these ideas been implemented instead of squashed. Thanks to Carter at least now we can say, ‘we’ve been talking about this issue for _decades_. It’s time to act!’ For what that’s worth… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/89 "2009-05-03T19:38:09Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Why didn’t Carter’s energy proposals go anywhere? > > I suppose one can only get so much credit for being right- it is getting things accomplished that really counts. But when it comes to energy policy, he was just about right on. Leaders since then have treated conservation and energy independence as if they were the Devil, culminating in W., The Oilman President. > > Reduce dependence on foreign oil? 20% of our power from solar by 2000? It would’ve been freakin’ great had these ideas been implemented instead of squashed. > > Thanks to Carter at least now we can say, ‘we’ve been talking about this issue for _decades_. It’s time to act!’ For what that’s worth… Uh, no. _Nixon_ was the first to make a big deal about energy independance, during the 1973 oil embargo. Ford repeated it, and every President since has claimed it was a goal of theirs. [Cite.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008333899_appromisespromisesenergyindependence.html) Since 1998, _I_’ve been advocating flying cars powered only by cotton balls. It would’ve been freakin’ great had my ideas been implemented instead of squashed. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/90 "2009-05-03T21:15:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Not by [his book,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Peace_Not_Apartheid) he didn’t! Jimmy Carter is pretty much universally reviled by one side of the issue. That means he has no credibility left, and yes, it was that book that destroyed his credibility. He’s worthless on the issue now. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/91 "2009-05-04T00:46:23Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Uh, no. _Nixon_ was the first to make a big deal about energy independance, during the 1973 oil embargo. Ford repeated it, and every President since has claimed it was a goal of theirs. [Cite.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008333899_appromisespromisesenergyindependence.html) > > Since 1998, _I_’ve been advocating flying cars powered only by cotton balls. It would’ve been freakin’ great had my ideas been implemented instead of squashed. Well… I didn’t say he was the _first_ to make a big deal of it. I’m not going to say you haven’t offered a decent rebuttal to my post. We’re gentlemen after all, no? I’ll take issue with a couple of points though: flying cars powered by cotton balls vs. 20% of our energy from solar? Flying cars are fiction. That goal for solar is not. I’ll try to provide a cite soon. Do you disagree? And- here’s a quote from that article: > [@](#): > > “I think it’s a false hope. The politicians love to say `I’m going to move this country to energy independence.’ It’s not possible. It’s a goal that’s not feasible,” says Robert Ebel, a senior adviser in the energy and security program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think-tank. > > If you’re talking about zero dependence on foreign oil “we can’t do it” because even with the new emphasis on alternative fuels “we’re going to be using the same kind of primary energy in 2020 that we’re using today, though maybe in slightly different percentages,” says Ebel. Well ok, that guy _thinks_ it is a a ‘goal that’s not feasible’, but who is he, what’s his factual basis, and what does the Center for Strategic and International Studies promote? (really- I have no idea whatsoever). 2020 is only 11 years away, so maybe we will and maybe we won’t be using the ‘same kinds of primary energy’ then. Does that mean we give up on… I’m primarily interested in ending dependence on foreign oil, so can we constrain it to that? Do you consider that an unworthy goal? What are the consequences of conflating ‘We can’t do it by 2020’ with ‘We can’t do it, period?’ And- if you don’t like the word ‘squashed’, what’s a better way to interpret our seeming lack of progress on this issue over the last 30+ years? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/92 "2009-05-04T01:17:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > The face of all-white rule in Rhodesia: > > [Abel Muzorewa - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel_Muzorewa) > :rolleyes: I’m uncertain as to what role Jimmy Carter played in the [Lancaster House Agreement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster_House_Agreement). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/93 "2009-05-04T01:47:06Z")
> [@furt](#): > > IOW, all Democrats are better than all Republicans. Gosh, what a keen analytical mind you have. :rolleyes: Eisenhower wasn’t bad. But the Republican Party turned to the Dark Side after the [Southern Strategy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) and the rise of movement conservatism. There will never be another Republican president worth a bucket of warm piss until the party purges itself of all that. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/94 "2009-05-04T02:13:13Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’m uncertain as to what role Jimmy Carter played in the [Lancaster House Agreement](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancaster_House_Agreement). Yeah, neither am I. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/95 "2009-05-04T02:24:53Z")
He played Estlin, scapegrace, ne’er-do-well younger brother to Russelford, Duke of Umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/96 "2009-05-04T02:47:42Z")
A role later played by Hugh Jackman on broadway, so you know it was a good one! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/97 "2009-05-04T03:02:03Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Eisenhower wasn’t bad. But the Republican Party turned to the Dark Side after the [Southern Strategy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) and the rise of movement conservatism. There will never be another Republican president worth a bucket of warm piss until the party purges itself of all that. And, no, Reagan was not worth a bucket of warm piss. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/98 "2009-05-04T03:30:59Z")
> [@Tenebras](#): > > A role later played by Hugh Jackman on broadway, so you know it was a good one! Really? I thought he took Umbrage. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/99 "2009-05-04T04:37:24Z")
You’d be surprised how common that mistake is. Umbrage was played by Lou Ferrigno. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987/100 "2009-05-04T06:55:54Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Carter was a better president than Nixon,Ford,Reagan,Bush I and Bush II. > Talking him down is part of the process of talking UP Reagan, which is a very popular thing to do in some circles. I think to compare him to all of his Republican contemporaries without throwing in Clinton is really missing the OP. If you dislike republicans, fine, but talking Carter down is NOT talking Reagan up in ALL circles. FWIW, IMHO (wow. I wonder how long I could string a sentence together with those things), Carter was the most honest, down to earth, “man of the people” president in my lifetime. He seemed (and seems) like a genuinely nice person with good intentions. His problem, from what I’ve read, is that he shut out his own party when he got into the white house, not following party form and rewarding folks that didn’t, in his opinion, deserve it. So, to punish him, the Dems in the house and senate (who I believe held a majority in both chambers), really tied his hands and didn’t allow him to do the things he wanted to do. He paid for his independence. It seemed to me that he didn’t play the game the way he was told to play it, so the powers in the democratic party made him virtually unelectable in 1980. He had some successes, the Camp David agreements probably being at the top. But he’ll mostly be remembered for the Iran hostages, the olympic boycott of 1980, high inflation and 17% mortgage rates. Of all the presidents of the last 60 years, I think he is the first one I’d like to have as a neighbor, have a beer with, and trust. He still impresses me as a man who wants to make a positive difference, and even if I don’t agree with everything he does or says, he doesn’t strike me as a man that has someone pulling his strings. I can’t think of any other president after Eisenhower that I can say that about. Come to think about it, I wouldn’t mind having a beer with Eisenhower either. (Yeah, yeah.. I know he’s dead.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-carter-was-he-so-bad/494987.md?page=6)