# Jimmy Rollins Game Winning Hit: Baserunning Blunder? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 20, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466 "2009-10-20T11:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/21 "2009-10-21T14:29:11Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > It just happened in Game 2 of the Twins-Yankees Divisional Playoff series. Carlos Gomez rounded 2nd and was tagged out before a Twins runner scored (who would have scored easily). This blunder cost the Twins a 1-1 series tie. I almost posted that, too, but it’s wrong. Gomez wasn’t trying to stretch a single; he overran second base (so he was trying to stretch a double). He fell as he was trying to get back to the base. If he had been caught in a rundown, the run still would have scored. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/22 "2009-10-21T14:41:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I almost posted that, too, but it’s wrong. Gomez wasn’t trying to stretch a single; he overran second base (so he was trying to stretch a double). He fell as he was trying to get back to the base. If he had been caught in a rundown, the run still would have scored. I don’t see the difference. The point is that the run would have scored easily, while Gomez put himself in a position to get tagged out prior to the run, which then happened. I understand that it’s not exactly the same situation. In the middle of a game, there is a real benefit from advancing to the next base (as opposed to Rollins’ blunder in the bottom of the 9th). But Gomez was stupid for even thinking about going to 3rd. There were already 2 outs, so he would have scored anyway if the next batter got a hit. One of the cardinal rules of baserunning: never make the 1st or 3rd outs at 3rd base (which includes attempting to reach 3rd base, and which is what Gomez intended on doing). Oftentimes, if the play at the plate is going to be close and if the run is important, it is a smart move to get caught in a rundown assuring that the run scores. But this wasn’t such a situation. The runner was going to score easily. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/23 "2009-10-21T14:45:29Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > …He was either clueless about the situation or was trying to pad his stats. Knowing a bit about Rollins, I think it was the former. By the way, Phillies fans, I meant this is a good way. Rollins isn’t a selfish player and would never try to pad his stats to the detriment of his team. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/24 "2009-10-21T15:33:26Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I don’t see the difference. Just pointing out it’s not _quite_ the scenario **RickJay** posed, although it is close. It was a huge screwup by Gomez and I couldn’t believe the Yanks’ good fortune when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/25 "2009-10-21T16:03:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Just pointing out it’s not _quite_ the scenario **RickJay** …I couldn’t believe the Yanks’ good fortune when it happened. You and me both! If you recall, Punto also was caught overrunning 3rd base. The Twins and the umpires really handed us that game. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/26 "2009-10-21T16:49:43Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > By the way, Phillies fans, I meant this is a good way. Rollins isn’t a selfish player and would never try to pad his stats to the detriment of his team. So Rollins is clueless? I’m so glad you meant that in a good way. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/27 "2009-10-21T18:26:10Z")
> [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > So Rollins is clueless? I’m so glad you meant that in a good way. I was referring to that one particular play. What’s your conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/28 "2009-10-21T20:19:28Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I was referring to that one particular play. What’s your conclusion? That you’re over-thinking this. The ball went all the way back to the fence. It was an easy double for Rollins. He was past second by the time the ball came in on a weak throw from one of the deepest parts of the ballpark. And no one was covering second. Even if Rollins tripped and fell on the way to second, Ruiz still would have scored before a tag could have been made. In your defense, from a baseball fundamentals POV, yes, stopping at first wouldn’t have been a bad idea. However, on this play, Rollins did OK. I don’t think he exhibited “clueless” behavior in any way. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/29 "2009-10-21T20:33:32Z")
i know this won’t read correctly, but let us all thank [Fred Merkle](http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Merkle%27s_Boner) for his infamous boner… ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/30 "2009-10-21T21:47:01Z")
> [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > That you’re over-thinking this. > > The ball went all the way back to the fence. It was an easy double for Rollins. He was past second by the time the ball came in on a weak throw from one of the deepest parts of the ballpark. And no one was covering second. Even if Rollins tripped and fell on the way to second, Ruiz still would have scored before a tag could have been made. > > In your defense, from a baseball fundamentals POV, yes, stopping at first wouldn’t have been a bad idea. However, on this play, Rollins did OK. I don’t think he exhibited “clueless” behavior in any way. There was a play in a previous game in the series when Rollins was the base runner rounding 3rd to score a run. He was going to score easily and could have trotted, but ran at full speed. The announcers commented on how smart Rollins was for recognizing the potential for a trailing runner to get tagged out prior to the run being scored. To me, his intelligence on that play is proportional to the cluelessness of the play that we’re discussing. All players make errors of this kind in their careers. I’m not trying to say that Rollins is clueless in general. But he didn’t account for the potential disaster. Believe me, if he pulled a hamstring or something and got tagged before the score, Phillies fans would have skewered him. There was no potential benefit from his action. Even Ruiz could have pulled a hamstring, or missed 3rd and have had to re-touch it. Very unlikely, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/31 "2009-10-21T22:20:58Z")
This is all really academic. How far was Ruiz from home when Rollins rounded second anyway? I watched a replay on YouTube but that didn’t show where the two were relative to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/32 "2009-10-21T22:31:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is all really academic. How far was Ruiz from home when Rollins rounded second anyway? I watched a replay on YouTube but that didn’t show where the two were relative to each other. Yes, I think everyone agrees that it’s academic. The Dodgers didn’t throw anywhere near Rollins and Ruiz was going to score easily considering how deep into the gap the ball went. However I think it’s still worth pointing out that it really ought to be standard operating procedure to stop at 1st on a play like that in that situation. The benefits to running are marginal at best and the risks are legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/33 "2009-10-21T22:39:11Z")
I agreed on that point earlier in the thread. But where on the basepath was Rollins when the run scored? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466/34 "2009-10-22T00:09:17Z")
Try [this](http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?topic_id=phi&c_id=phi). The second version shows it best. Rollins was halfway to third as Ruiz came in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jimmy-rollins-game-winning-hit-baserunning-blunder/514466.md?page=1)