# Jingle Bells - who is Miss Fanny Bright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 7, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328 "2011-12-07T01:56:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/21 "2012-12-22T04:46:53Z")
Well, really, who was Nellie Bly? Or Annie Laurie? Or Lili Marlene? All fictional really. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/22 "2012-12-22T04:53:48Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > If the song is based around races, maybe ‘Fanny’ is a diminutive of ‘fan’, i.e., a sleigh race groupie. And a ‘Fanny Bright’ may be a nickname of such a fan. > > Was ‘fan’ used as such back at the time of the origin of the song? No. [“Fan”](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=fan&searchmode=none) in the meaning of enthusiast (as a shortened form of “fanatic”) dates to 1889, and was first used in baseball. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/23 "2012-12-22T09:14:05Z")
Another Jingle Bells curiosity: whence the commonly sung addition of “ha ha ha” after the line “laughing all the way”? As a child in the sixties, I don’t recall anyone doing that - now it seems _de rigeur_. Always done a shade insincerely, as in “we know what a bunch of nostalgic buncombe this song, and its depiction of an activity few of us have ever personally experienced, is; let us now gently mock it and the top-hatted, sideburn-joweled swell who spawned it”. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/24 "2012-12-22T09:38:17Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > According to my aussie friend, ‘fanny bright’ would be the australian equivalent of ‘Pussy Galore’ (of James Bond fame) today. Plenty of Aussies right here on the forum, me for instance. While “fanny” definitely means “lady parts” everywhere but the US (where it means “arse”, which yanks call “ass”), there’s no meaning of “bright” I’ve ever heard apart from “light” or “clever”. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/25 "2012-12-22T11:40:33Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > We will probably never know the correct answer, but does it really matter? Does any question posed on this board matter? These kind of “answers” are annoying but to come from a charter member… ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/26 "2012-12-22T14:35:32Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I can’t help but think that that’s a mondegreen of some kind… Definitely not a mondegreen; I’ve performed it this way in school choir. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/27 "2012-12-22T14:46:14Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Does any question posed on this board matter? These kind of “answers” are annoying but to come from a charter member… Now, now, **PlainJain** , don’t get yourself all upsot. mmm ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/28 "2012-12-22T14:54:48Z")
Well, damn. I’m pushing 60, and I never heard or read more than the first verse of that song before now. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/29 "2012-12-22T15:41:23Z")
While we can all snicker at the slang meanings of “fanny,” it is indeed a legitimate first name (e.g. Fanny Farmer) and probably didn’t conjure up those meanings when it was more commonly used. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/30 "2012-12-22T15:45:32Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Well, really, who was Nellie Bly? Or Annie Laurie? Or Lili Marlene? > > All fictional really. [Nellie Bly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Bly). > [@](#): > > Nellie Bly (May 5, 1864[1] – January 27, 1922) was the pen name of American journalist Elizabeth Jane Cochrane. She remains notable for two feats: a record-breaking trip around the world in emulation of Jules Verne’s character Phileas Fogg, and an exposé in which she faked insanity to study a mental institution from within. In addition to her writing, she was also an industrialist and charity worker. She originally intended for her pseudonym to be “Nelly Bly,” but her editor wrote “Nellie” by mistake, and the error stuck. [Annie Laurie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Laurie) > [@](#): > > William Douglas > > William Douglas became a soldier in the Royal Scots and fought in Germany and Spain and rose to the rank of captain. He also fought at least two duels. He returned to his estate at Fingland in 1694. Traditionally it is said that Douglas had a romance with Anna/Anne Laurie (16 December 1682, Barjarg Tower, in Keir, near Auldgirth, Scotland — 5 May 1764, Friars’ Carse, Dumfries-shire, Scotland). Anna was the youngest daughter of Robert Laurie, who became first baronet of Maxwellton in 1685. The legend says that her father opposed a marriage. This may have been because Anna was very young; she was only in her mid-teens when her father died. It may also have been because of Douglas’s aggressive temperament or more likely because of his Jacobite allegiances. It is known for certain that they knew of each because in a later letter by Anna she says in reply to news about Douglas, “I trust that he has forsaken his treasonable opinions, and that he is content.” … > Anna Laurie’s later life > > In Edinburgh in 29 August 1709 Anna married Alexander Fergusson, 14th Laird of Craigdarroch. (Early editions of Brewer’s are in error claiming her husband was James Ferguson, who was in fact her son.) She lived at Craigdarroch for 33 years. Under her directions the present mansion of Craigdarroch was built, and a relic of her taste is still preserved in the formal Georgian gardens at the rear of the house. She was born on 16 December 1682, about 6 o’clock in the morning at Barjarg Tower, near Auldgirth, Scotland. Annie Laurie died on a Saturday, 5 April 1764, and some sources say she was buried at Craigdarroch. Portraits of her exist at Maxwelton and at Mansfield, the seat of the Stuart-Monteiths. The portraits show that she had blue eyes. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/31 "2012-12-22T16:19:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That link also shows that Fanny Bright was not in the original song. … But Batman still smells. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/32 "2012-12-22T16:30:13Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > While we can all snicker at the slang meanings of “fanny,” it is indeed a legitimate first name (e.g. Fanny Farmer) and probably didn’t conjure up those meanings when it was more commonly used. It’s the difference between British slang and American slang. Fanny means vulva in Britain. In America, the term has always meant buttocks. It’s a quite dirty term in Britain, but a polite euphemism in America. Usage shows it to appear much later than we would think. It didn’t start showing up in American slang until the 1920s, so any use of it in the 19th century would be innocent. And even though it seems likely that the term came from John Cleland’s 1748 book _Fanny Hill, Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure_, it doesn’t appear in the modern sense until the 1830s. Heck, Jane Austin used Fanny for the heroine in _Mansfield Park_. Like many slang terms, especially obscene slang, fanny probably was used earlier than the print first usages. Whether Cleland was using a current term I don’t know, but Fanny Hill = public mound, a pun on the Latin term _mons veneris_ works too well to be complete coincidence, so I bet he did. We discussed it more in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=634922). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/33 "2012-12-22T17:02:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fanny Hill = public mound, While Fanny Hill’s own _mons_ was open to the general public, I suspect you meant _pubic_.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/34 "2012-12-22T17:20:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > While Fanny Hill’s own _mons_ was open to the general public, I suspect you meant _pubic_.😃 I did, but now I’m thinking I like mine better! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/35 "2012-12-22T19:31:53Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > […]. > [Annie Laurie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Laurie) Did she just lay down and dee? ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/36 "2012-12-23T01:27:44Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > According to my aussie friend, ‘fanny bright’ would be the australian equivalent of ‘Pussy Galore’ (of James Bond fame) today. The problem with this theory is that Fanny was a very common female name during certain eras. I’d liken it to the name Dick. It’s such a common man’s name (or nickname anyway) that you can’t assume any off-color slang meaning without some other indication that the author intended it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/37 "2012-12-23T02:39:14Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fanny means vulva in Britain. Not just in Britain - as I noted several post up, it means that in Australia, and to the best of my knowledge that’s what it means in _every_ native English-speaking country except the USA and maybe Canada, which picks up a lot more US influence. Australia isn’t part of Britain. New Zealand isn’t part of Britain. The Republic of Ireland, while part of the British Isles, is _not_ part of Great Britain. India, South Africa, and so on. All places where English is either _the_ native language or _one of_ them, all _not_ Britain. It irritates me when Americans act like they’re the only English speakers outside the UK. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/38 "2012-12-23T07:26:31Z")
You may be interested to know that–believe it or not–_ **China** _ is one of the countries with the most English speakers, because of its sheer high population. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/39 "2012-12-23T15:38:48Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Not just in Britain - as I noted several post up, it means that in Australia, and to the best of my knowledge that’s what it means in _every_ native English-speaking country except the USA and maybe Canada, which picks up a lot more US influence. > > Australia isn’t part of Britain. New Zealand isn’t part of Britain. The Republic of Ireland, while part of the British Isles, is _not_ part of Great Britain. India, South Africa, and so on. All places where English is either _the_ native language or _one of_ them, all _not_ Britain. > > It irritates me when Americans act like they’re the only English speakers outside the UK. Well, it irritates me when people drag in irrelevancies to threads. I was talking about 18th & 19th century slang usage in Britain and America and how one might have influenced the other. That additional countries later adopted the same slang may be true but it has no part in this discussion. Context is everything. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jingle-bells-who-is-miss-fanny-bright/605328/40 "2012-12-25T12:04:41Z")
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