# JK Rowling Court case - Third Party wants to publish HP encyclopedia **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292 "2008-04-14T13:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/1 "2008-04-14T13:56:41Z")
[BBC Link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7346093.stm) I think this should eb an interesting case. Steve Vander Ark wishes to publish (RDR books) a Harry Potter Lexicon, which would be based on material from his website of the same name JKR’s view > [@](#): > > “RDR’s book constitutes a Harry Potter rip-off of the type I have spent years trying to prevent,” she said. RDR’s view > [@](#): > > RDR Books said Rowling was seeking to “claim a monopoly on the right to publish literary reference guides, and other non-academic research, relating to her own fiction”. I personally think JKR should be allowed to claim a monopoly on her own literary creation. Out of interest, how does this compare to unauthorised biographies, is that a similar issue, or completely different. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/2 "2008-04-14T14:00:12Z")
What’s interesting about this case is that she’s fine with the _online_ encyclopaedia they created - she even used it herself to remind her of some details when she was writing the later books. But now they plan to publish it into a book and make money directly from her creation, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. Especially since it’s known that Rowling is planning an official HP encyclopaedia of her own. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/3 "2008-04-14T14:15:19Z")
Steve Vander Ark is an idiot. He’s going to ruin all of the good work fandom has done to NOT appear to be a threat to authors’ copyright. I think that if it had been a book full of articles about the Harry Potter universe everything would have been fine - I’ve seen similar unauthorized books about Buffy and such. Steve’s mistake is that this book is essentially a direct copy of the website with a few articles thrown in. If you ever look at the website, you’ll see that huge chunks of it is taken directly from the books. Stealing someone’s words is plagiarism, and is a completely different matter than merely playing for no profit in their universe. If anyone’s interested, you can read all the details [here](http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/tag/this+is+the+wank+that+never+ends). I haven’t had the heart to read past the very first report, it depresses me so much, so I’m probably missing lots of interesting information. ETA: And if anyone’s interested in reading about fandom being _responsible_, check out the [Organization For Transformative Works](http://www.transformativeworks.org/). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/4 "2008-04-14T14:47:44Z")
It seems as though his book fills a need, if only for scholarly purposes. ELF (Chapter 5, Book 1) Notable elfs include blah, blah, blah… If he did not steal her words, and simply produced a commentary and companion to her work, I see no problem at all. Frankly, I am surprised nobody has done it before. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/5 "2008-04-14T15:01:31Z")
[QUOTE=Risha] I think that if it had been a book full of articles about the Harry Potter universe everything would have been fine - I’ve seen similar unauthorized books about Buffy and such. Steve’s mistake is that this book is essentially a direct copy of the website with a few articles thrown in. If you ever look at the website, you’ll see that huge chunks of it is taken directly from the books. Stealing someone’s words is plagiarism, and is a completely different matter than merely playing for no profit in their universe. [/QUOTE] That’s very different, all right. If that’s the case I don’t see how he has a leg to stand on. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/6 "2008-04-14T16:13:30Z")
Rowling has asked that Vander Ark not be present in the courtroom when she gives her testimony. Who does she think she is? That’s virtually never done in a civil trial. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/7 "2008-04-14T16:24:41Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Rowling has asked that Vander Ark not be present in the courtroom when she gives her testimony. [/quote] I can’t find anything on such a request. Do you have a source? > [@](#): > > Who does she think she is? That’s virtually never done in a civil trial. Who does she think she is? She’s a litigant making a request to a court. Litigants make all kinds of requests that courts “virtually never” grant. Unless you look at the substance of her argument, there’s no reason to wonder whether she has some problem vis-a-vis her self perception. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/8 "2008-04-14T16:49:32Z")
Associated Press article in _[The Wall Street Journal](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120818164018912683.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)_, April 14: > [@](#): > > In court Friday, Mr. Hammer [a lawyer for RDR Books] said Rowling’s lawyers did not want Mr. Vander Ark in the courtroom while Ms. Rowling testifies. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/9 "2008-04-14T17:05:44Z")
Without the context of why she’s making such a request, it doesn’t make any sense to reach any conclusions about Rowling’s character or implied megalomania. The Associated Press story you quote includes no such context and uses it as the final line of the story, as if it harbours some kind of talismanic significance. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/10 "2008-04-14T19:26:48Z")
My sister just applied for his old job and had an interview last week. I wonder if his name came up and how that school feels about Harry Potter. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/11 "2008-04-14T19:48:01Z")
I don’t really have anything to add to this other than to say that RDR Books is based out of my home town of Muskegon, Michigan and this is probably the weirdest way I ever would have expected to see that shithole in the news. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/12 "2008-04-14T21:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=Risha] ETA: And if anyone’s interested in reading about fandom being _responsible_, check out the [Organization For Transformative Works](http://www.transformativeworks.org/). [/QUOTE] Well, except that OTW is full of the fandom version of WASPs. OTW will root for their pet causes, but my anime and smut-lovin’ self has no place in OTW’s universe. Back to the OP: nice, buddy. Way to blow the top off of fandom and subject it to scrutiny by the mainstream media. Y’know, suddenly I don’t feel so bad in the corner with my anime and game fic… ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/13 "2008-04-14T21:34:23Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Rowling has asked that Vander Ark not be present in the courtroom when she gives her testimony. Who does she think she is? That’s virtually never done in a civil trial. [/QUOTE] I was wondering about this. Since he’s effectively the accused doesn’t he have a right to face his accusor? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/14 "2008-04-14T21:35:01Z")
JKR does have and maintains a monopoly on her creation. Whether you like it or not, this is entirely her choice. Which is why you will never see a Harry Potter RPG. Such a thing would require game designers to create new things and take liberties with her world. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/15 "2008-04-14T21:38:35Z")
Has anyone published this sort of work before? Is there an encyclopedia for The Lord of the Rings that was not done with Tolkin’s permission? JKR claims that she will publish one in about 10 years and give the proceeds to charity. (yeah right) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/16 "2008-04-14T21:42:30Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob] I was wondering about this. Since he’s effectively the accused doesn’t he have a right to face his accusor? [/QUOTE] This isn’t a criminal case. There is no “accused” as such. But anyway, he’s completely indemnified through his publishing contract. He doesn’t actually stand to lose anything himself. The publisher is the principal defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/17 "2008-04-14T21:48:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Has anyone published this sort of work before? [/QUOTE] Search “Lord of the Rings commentary” on Amazon. There are all kinds of unofficial books of essays and criticism, as well as pure reference guides and chronologies. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/18 "2008-04-14T21:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] But anyway, he’s completely indemnified through his publishing contract. He doesn’t actually stand to lose anything himself. The publisher is the principal defendant. [/QUOTE] In fact, he refused previous offers to publish a physical version of his website because he was indeed concerned about copyright infringement. He signed on with the current publisher only because they agreed to include a phrase in his contract to the effect that they would assume total risk in the event of a copyright lawsuit. Which, you have to admit, isn’t a great argument in favor of the publisher’s position. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/19 "2008-04-14T21:55:04Z")
For the curious, here is RDR Books’ [Memorandum in Opposition to Plaintiff’s Motion for a Preliminary Injunction](http://www.rdrbooks.com/pdf/oppn_to_rowlings_PI_mtn.pdf), February 8, 2008. As the brief says, in the U.S. a preliminary injunction against the publication of a book is an extraordinary remedy for a case not involving something like national security. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292/20 "2008-04-14T22:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=Autumn Almanac] Search “Lord of the Rings commentary” on Amazon. There are all kinds of unofficial books of essays and criticism, as well as pure reference guides and chronologies. [/QUOTE] Not the best example. The U.S. copyright status of _The Lord of the Rings_ was clouded for about 30 years. Eisen, Durwood & Co. v. Christopher R. Tolkien et al., 794 F. Supp. 85, 23 U.S.P.Q.2d 1150 (S.D.N.Y. 1992), affirmed without opinion, 990 F.2d 623 (2nd Cir. 1993) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jk-rowling-court-case-third-party-wants-to-publish-hp-encyclopedia/445292.md?page=2)