# JLA/Avengers! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 4, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602 "2003-09-04T21:16:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/41 "2003-09-08T04:02:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*Y’mean I’m not the only one reading _Earth X_? Hot damn! \*\* Nope! 😃 Apparently there’re three of us! ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/42 "2003-09-08T10:10:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Carnage \* > \*\*I believe Thor may derive some of his power from people that believe in him. That may just be Earth X continuity though. \*\* There’s a Thor in the DCU (See the John Byrne issues of **Jack Kirby’s New Gods** ), and presumably the Marvel Thor could glom off of his sidestream believers. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/43 "2003-09-08T10:53:49Z")
Note that there is a _third_ type of Adamantium. Golden Adamantium, of which there is exactly one known example, Hercules’ Mace. It’s historical/mystical and shares only the name. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/44 "2003-09-09T04:51:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*And Cap’s shield isn’t adamantium. Couldn’t have been. Adamantium was invented (we saw Dr. Myron MacLain inventing it) in Avengers #66-68 ish circa 1967. Cap’s shield was made in the 1940s. Per a fairly recent story (roughly Avengers (current series) 20-24, plus a backup story in an Annual) Adamantium was invented in an effort to duplicate the metalurgiacal accident that created Cap’s shield (which is a steel/vibranium mix). > \*\* Close, but not quite. Cap’s shield is a vibranium/adamantium mix. It was made by Maclain, then he spent the rest of his life trying to duplicate it, resulting in the discovery of Adamantium years later. And if there is one thing that could damage true adamantium, it would be Cap’s shield wielded at Hulk-level strength. Lok ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/45 "2003-09-09T11:27:20Z")
Sorry **Lok** , you’re mistaken. Avengers Annual 2001 point-blank says that there’s no adamantium in Cap’s shield. Direct quote from the second page from the end and the last page (they’re not numbered): > [@](#): > > "No – there’s no adamantium in Captain America’s shield, though the cunfusion is understandable. The shield was created by Dr. Myron Maclain while attempting to to create super-strong metals for the U.S. Army. He was attempting to bond a sample of Wakandan vibranium to a new steel alloy, without success–until one night, he dozed off in his lab to find that the metals had bonded, though he did not know why. He cast the resultant metal into a disk shape for testing–and that disc is what became Captian America’s shield. > > Maclain was unable to duplicate the process, however–and has to this day been unable to discover what it was that bonded the steel and the vibranium. He tried for decades to recreate that miracle metal–but the closest he was able to come was his far later creation, adamantium. It’s an impressive achievement to be sure --a metal almost completely impervious to damage – even at the hands of the mighty Thor. So it’s understandable that people occasionally confuse Dr. Maclain’s two great discoveries. But it’s no more than that – the shield predates adamantium by decades. Note that this isn’t from a letter column or a text page or something: it’s an actual story page. The shield wasn’t even made from the same stuff as adamantium–adamantium has no steel or vibranium in it. It’s made from something called “AD-Resin X, and AD-Resin Y”. I don’t know what they are, but they’re clearly _not_ steel and vibranium. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/46 "2003-09-10T04:23:48Z")
Fenris, Well, I can’t find any comic quotes to back up my statement. I was using a Marvel fan website. But I stand by the idea that Cap’s shield could damage adamantium if it was used with enough force. Lok ---
**Author:** ![Koffing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Koffing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koffing)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/47 "2003-09-10T18:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*Note that there is a _third_ type of Adamantium. Golden Adamantium, of which there is exactly one known example, Hercules’ Mace. It’s historical/mystical and shares only the name. \*\* Actually, Herc’s mace is made of _adamant_, the mythical metal from which adamantium’s name is derived. Adamant is a superstrong godmetal much like the uru that comprises Mjolnir. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/48 "2003-09-10T22:02:17Z")
**Fenris** has kind of beaten me to the punch re: using a “Molecular Rearranger” to damage Adamantium, but I thought I’d add…[This page, about “Ultron,” an Adamantium robot](http://marvelbook.topcities.com/rtuw/ultron.htm), notes that a Molecular Rearranger works by projecting a “magnetic, selective nuclear particle resonator” field (Whew, what a mouthfull!). In Ultron’s case (er…no pun intended), it’s used to render his Adamantium joints “malleable for periods of movement.” I’d just like to note that, theoretically, if you had a weapon that could project such a field _in addition_ to causing physical damage, you might indeed be able to dent Adamantium. I’d, personally, be willing to concede that somewhat “exotic” weapons such as a multi-megaton Nuke, or a magical warhammer wielded by a god, might indeed be capable of generating such an energy field as a matter of course. As to how the Hulk was able to dent Adamantium? I dunno…maybe he ate some [magical cursed yogurt](http://www.geocities.com/area51/Rampart/7183/quotehomer.htm) earlier in the day, or something. Now, back to the issue at hand (again, no pun intended)… And, as in-character as it was, Batman’s offhand trouncing of the Punisher ticked me off, a bit. Probably more because I respect the Punisher’s whole _ethos_ more than Batman’s, and not that I thought that Batman couldn’t have “taken down” Castle. “Ditto” on it seeming uncharictaristic for Doom to have his people cheering him at gunpoint. Plus, y’know…even if that _was_ the usual way he had his people cheer him, you’d that since he’d probably get cheered from that one balcony on a day-to-day basis, he’d have a more permenant means of crowd-threatening set up than to have some minions pointing _pistols_ from Castle Doom’s battlements. Machine-guns on swivel turrets, at the least. And as for the D.C. heros who were “outraged” at the Marvel Earth’s condition…am I missing something? Is D.C. Earth not supposed to have _any_ problems? Is the whole _planet_ a crime free, first-world utopia? Wonder Woman and M.M. were horrified at Genosha…but didn’t Montevideo get _nuked_ by terrorists, not long ago? How about Coast City? Didn’t they have, like, two world wars in the last three years, counting an alien invasion? And, please don’t think me a philistine, but the art style looks a little too…well, “old fashioned,” for my tastes. I mean, compared to, say, recent Spider-Man or Mystique comics…or even Batman. Maybe my eye’s have just been “spoiled” by all the computer-coloring and manga-influenced drawings. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/49 "2003-09-10T23:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > \*\*And as for the D.C. heros who were “outraged” at the Marvel Earth’s condition…am I missing something? \*\* Yup. 🙂 'm willing to bet that the over-the-top reactions of Superman and Cap (and to a lesser degree the other heroes) to each other’s world has something to do with the Medusa Mask. It’s been brought into play, so I’d be surprised if it wasn’t being used. Also, remember that the cuddley sensitive warm-n-fuzzy Doom who’s beloved by his people is a modern (say, 1984 or so) invention. Prior to that, he was a _scary_ tyrant who regularly had people shot for badmouthing him, who murdered people for damaging works of art, etc. I understand it’s a shock to see the character being treated that way, but it’s a legit interpretation, IMO. The Marvel/DC thing is being overstated, IMO, but it’s there. DC has _nothing_ like “the mutant problem”, or the ongoing dislike/distrust of heroes. DC people DO treat their heroes better. On the other hand, Lex Luthor is president of the USA over in DC :rolleyes: which is essentially (given Byrne’s vapid remake of the character) the same as the Kingpin being elected. In addition, beyond Montevideo and Coast City, Count Vertigo’s country was destroyed (and I mean every man, woman and child, and sterilized down to the bedrock) by the Spectre, nominally a hero. BUT, Marvel has Galactus, who (stupid moral relativism-type comments aside) is evil (Odin’s wrong. So’s Reed. And so’s Eternity and anyone else spewing that malarky. Murdering billions of sentient beings and committing untold trillions of acts of genocide is pretty much the _definition_ of evil. And no amount of “It’s a test!” or “He’s beyond good and evil” crap can get past that) and is allowed to go on his merry way. Can you imagine Superman just ignoring the Sun Eater and saying “Hey, no big deal. He’s just doin’ his job!”? :rolleyes: There are some differences, but it’s not as easy as “Marvel=Dark” and “DC=Light”. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Muldoon\_s\_Squishiness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muldoon_s_Squishiness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/50 "2003-09-11T02:57:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*Y’mean I’m not the only one reading _Earth X_? Hot damn! \*\* I have it and both volumes of **Universe X** in TP form. My question is this: Anyone know if Marvel plans to release **Paradise X** in TP form? Sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/51 "2003-09-11T03:12:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Koffing \* > \*\*Actually, Herc’s mace is made of _adamant_, the mythical metal from which adamantium’s name is derived. Adamant is a superstrong godmetal much like the uru that comprises Mjolnir. \*\* That’s nothing, I’ve got a mystical knife made out of the magical metal _davidbowie_. ---
**Author:** ![gscotb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b77776/32.png) [@gscotb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gscotb)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/52 "2003-09-11T05:32:06Z")
Say, I’ve missed about the last 30 years of this stuff. Is there anyplace where I can catch up? Is Mr. Mxyzptlk still a (omnipotent) goofball? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/53 "2003-09-11T06:02:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Also, remember that the cuddley sensitive warm-n-fuzzy Doom who’s beloved by his people is a modern (say, 1984 or so) invention. Prior to that, he was a _scary_ tyrant who regularly had people shot for badmouthing him, who murdered people for damaging works of art, etc. I understand it’s a shock to see the character being treated that way, but it’s a legit interpretation, IMO. > \*\* Yeah, but even then…since 1984-or-so, he’s _been_ “warm and fuzzy,” in Marvel’s continuity! On the other hand, this might not be the “mainstream continuity” Doom…maybe this is actually Earth-61_5_ that’s doing a crossover with a DC elseworld, or something. 615 being a reality where Doom’s still an \*\*\*hole. Or…if the D.C. heroes were being mind-controlled when they were in Latveria (or if they were just really unobservant) maybe they just misunderstood what was happening at the pro-Doom rally… Doom: “People of Latveria, subjects of DOOM! Behold…these neat new laser pistols that I just invented for my praetorian guard! Aren’t they the _coolest?_” 😃 Ranchoth (Praise lord Doom, for he is funky!) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/54 "2003-09-11T06:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lok \* > \*\*I don’t know exactly which heroes are the main focus, but I do known that Perez insisted that everyone that was ever a member of either team _was_ going to be somewhere in the story. He wanted to draw them all. \*\* Even Emma Peel? Oh please oh please oh please oh please… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/55 "2003-09-11T17:55:24Z")
Fenris: > [@](#): > > given Byrne’s vapid remake of the character You don’t like the Byrne version of Luthor? I know you’re big on the classics, but I have to say, I think he’s a much better villain now then pre-Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/56 "2003-09-11T18:05:47Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t like the Byrne version of Luthor? I know you’re big on the classics, but I have to say, I think he’s a much better villain now then pre-Crisis. Granted, but he’s gone from mad scientist to Presidential tyrant. Arguably, they’re two completely different characters with the same name. Of course, that says nothing of the _Silver Age_ alterations of the Superman universe–before that, Luthor was a mere gangster thug, the Ultra Humanite was the Luthor-equivalent, and Superman threw people into their own bullets. Times change. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/57 "2003-09-11T19:12:37Z")
BTW, can someone tell me just what Marvel alien race the Khunds are fighting on page 20 (in the panel following the Lobo vs. Shi’ar Imperial Guard image)? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/58 "2003-09-11T20:18:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*BTW, can someone tell me just what Marvel alien race the Khunds are fighting on page 20 (in the panel following the Lobo vs. Shi’ar Imperial Guard image)? \*\* [The Brood](http://www.marveldirectory.com/alienraces/brood.htm) ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/59 "2003-09-11T20:34:08Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s nothing, I’ve got a mystical knife made out of the magical metal davidbowie. That is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602/60 "2003-09-11T20:36:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Max Carnage \* > \*\*[The Brood](http://www.marveldirectory.com/alienraces/brood.htm) \*\* No, those are the “whatever those are” pig-piling Mongul. Max is asking about the Orange-skinned guys with smooth faces being blasted by pink muscle-bound baldies. Not that I know the answer, either. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jla-avengers/199602.md?page=4)