# JLU 7/24/05 Season Finale
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 24, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947 "2005-07-24T19:41:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/1 "2005-07-24T19:41:57Z")
Hurm. The season kinda limped out on this one. I can only assume that someone mislabeld this episode of Batman Beyond (of which I have never seen an episode) under the heading Justice League Unlimited?
Don’t get me wrong. That was a good cartoon. I was entertained for 22 minutes.
Beyond the fact that this story seemed shoehorned into the Cadmus storyline, I did it was pretty good.
I am always impressed at how Dini cartoons have good directors. I’ve said before that this is the first cartoon where I have actually NOTICED cartoons as having directors.
The black and white, letterbox flashbacks made me smile. The story was pretty entertaining.
And once again (I keep repeating myself), the scene with Ace shows exactly how Batman should be written.
Overall, I wish they’d have focused more on the actual _Justice League_ (Batman has his own shows!), but it was not a waste of my time.
I look forward to a new season. I hope they retell some more classic DC stories.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/2 "2005-07-24T20:14:33Z")
I felt the episode description was misleading:
> [@DISH Network program guide](#):
>
> Fifty years in the future, the Justice League is the key to Batman’s darkest secret.
It _was_ a secret Batman held, but it wasn’t his, per se, and it wasn’t really THAT dark or have anything to do with the current JL.
I hope the fifth season goes back to the main 7 heroes.
As for Batman Beyond, it was a fairly decent show.
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### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/3 "2005-07-24T20:16:25Z")
It was an epilogue to the Dini/Timm Batman, who may never be seen again, not so much to this season of JLU. As such, it succeeded wonderfully. It pulled off the impossible and actually gave Batman a happy ending without compromising the character.
None of the Black and White sequences actually happened. You can tell because the clock is still intact at the end and he has a date with Dana later. It was subtle, but I liked it.
I also enjoyed the injokes of the Royal Flush gang:
A “Ten” who is a Bo Derek lookalike.
A Samurai Jack (who reverts to a black guy, possibly a reference to [Phil LaMarr?](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0482851/))
A drag Queen
And… um, MODOK.
And I agree. That’s how Batman should be.
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### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/4 "2005-07-24T20:41:46Z")
> [@Menocchio](#):
>
> It was an epilogue to the Dini/Timm Batman, who may never be seen again, not so much to this season of JLU. As such, it succeeded wonderfully. It pulled off the impossible and actually gave Batman a happy ending without compromising the character.
Yeah. I figured there was just one more story Dini wanted to tell so he loosely connected it to the JLU. He’s earned that right!
> [@](#):
>
> None of the Black and White sequences actually happened. You can tell because the clock is still intact at the end and he has a date with Dana later. It was subtle, but I liked it.
I missed that. I was confused as to who she was and what role she played. I realized that he had a date with her at the end, but I guessed that she was just letting his hissy fit slide… 😃
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### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/5 "2005-07-24T20:56:07Z")
Actually, the season ended last week. This was just a tying up of loose ends.
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### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [July 24, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/6 "2005-07-24T20:57:45Z")
> [@ouryL](#):
>
> Actually, the season ended last week. This was just a tying up of loose ends.
And it was nice to see the Batman Beyond Justice League. :eek:
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### Author:  [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/7 "2005-07-25T02:51:54Z")
Who was the woman that didn’t kill Terry’s parents?
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### Author:  [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/8 "2005-07-25T03:02:10Z")
> [@Amok](#):
>
> Who was the woman that didn’t kill Terry’s parents?
I’m not sure, but she was dressed like the Phantam. I wonder if it was the same woman(I don’t remember her name, but it was one of Batman’s old girlfiriends). She looked like she was old enough to be.
A decent episode, but I was hoping for more JL stuff. I did get a kick out of young Terry coming out of a “Grey Ghost” movie at the Theater.
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### Author:  [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/9 "2005-07-25T03:09:39Z")
> [@HPL](#):
>
> I’m not sure, but she was dressed like the Phantam. I wonder if it was the same woman(I don’t remember her name, but it was one of Batman’s old girlfiriends). She looked like she was old enough to be.
I assumed she was the Phantasm grown old, Andrea Beaumont. For anyone who hasn’t seen it, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (by Timm and Dini) is the best Batman ever, alongside Batman Begins. It perfectly portrays Batman AND Bruce Wayne.
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### Author:  [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/10 "2005-07-25T03:19:15Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#):
>
> I assumed she was the Phantasm grown old, Andrea Beaumont. For anyone who hasn’t seen it, Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (by Timm and Dini) is the best Batman ever, alongside Batman Begins. It perfectly portrays Batman AND Bruce Wayne.
Arthur Reeves: [on TV] What kind of city are we running when we depend on the support of a potential madman!
[click]
Alfred: What rot, sir! Why you’re the very model of sanity. Oh by the way, I pressed your tights and put away your exploding gas balls.
Bruce Wayne: Thank you, Alfred.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/11 "2005-07-25T13:04:07Z")
> [@Menocchio](#):
>
> None of the Black and White sequences actually happened. You can tell because the clock is still intact at the end and he has a date with Dana later. It was subtle, but I liked it.
I didn’t see it that way - I saw the black and white bits as flashbacks - it’s just that the consequences had been subsequently mended. I guess you could read it either way, but I found it telling that when he arrived at Waller’s house, he was there as Terry McGinnis, not Batman.
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### Author:  [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/12 "2005-07-25T13:57:25Z")
I thought it was Selena (cat woman) in the Phantom costume. The short-cropped hair, reminded me of Selena in the Dark Knight Year one series and the “insight” towards what Batman would want, seemed something the only a person close to him would understand.
I don’t think Andrea Beaumont, was that close to Batman, she was closer to Bruce Wayne.
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### Author:  [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/13 "2005-07-25T14:19:17Z")
The only thing that took me out of the moment on this one was Waller calling what she’d done “Project Batman Beyond.” Totally unnecessary, IMO. It didn’t need a self-serving code name like that.
Otherwise, a nice calm ending to a tumultuos season. And it definitively tied _Batman Beyond_ into the ADCU, just like last week’s episode tied in the old Superman series into it.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/14 "2005-07-25T14:20:54Z")
I don’t think Selena’s alive in Beyond. I may be wrong, of course, but assuming that people who died on Earth-1 are dead tends not to steer too wrongly. Also, her being alive introduces all sorts of complications that would, ah, not leave Bruce as bitter.
It’s Andrea, I say.
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### Author:  [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/15 "2005-07-25T15:17:41Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#):
>
> I didn’t see it that way - I saw the black and white bits as flashbacks - it’s just that the consequences had been subsequently mended. I guess you could read it either way, but I found it telling that when he arrived at Waller’s house, he was there as Terry McGinnis, not Batman.
Yeah, he was thinking of breaking up with Dana, confronting Bruce, and quitting being Batman, so that’s why he confronted Waller as Terry. But he never did any of those things, there was no time or reason for him to mend fences until he got the skinny from Waller. The final scene occurs the very night of the Waller conversation.
And over on the Toonzone forums (no direct link handy, sorry) Bruce Timm agrees with me:
> [@Bruce Timm](#):
>
> bingo…see, ultimately, THAT’S what the episode is all about (or, at least that’s what we INTENDED it to be about)…all the artsy-fartsy fantasy/flashbacks, and the cameos and in-jokes and even the big, “soul-shattering revelation” are basically window-dressing…what i like most about the episode is that it provides an honest “happy ending” for batman, without being overly sappy and maudlin…especially once you realize the “flashbacks” never in fact happened, it’s clear that bruce has willingly “retired” completely from being batman, confident that terry will carry on his tradition, and his beloved gotham will always be protected… note that he says superman called, wanting TERRY’S opinion on a case , NOT BRUCE’S …the idea being that bruce doesn’t actively participate in crime-fighting anymore, not even in an advisory capacity…he probably doesn’t even monitor terry on the com-link anymore (oh yeah, that was another – admittedly probably too subtle – “fantasy” hint: bruce is wearing WAY too much silent-movie-villain eyeshadow in the batcave sequences)…the “soup” bit implies that he’s taken on the “alfred” role, and though he nags terry about the soup going cold, he seems pretty content with his lot overall…
>
> and as for terry, he CHANGES THE BATMAN PARADIGM…whether he’s bruce’s son or his clone or whatever, that’s beside the point…as waller tells him, bottom-line, he’s his own man…he decides at the end to be batman on his own terms, “screw it, i’m gonna break the rules, defy destiny – and probably defy bruce too, i bet he wouldn’t be too keen on the idea – i’m gonna marry the girl i love and STILL be batman”…
>
> anyhow, that’s my two cents…i’m not gonna argue with anyone who doesn’t like this ep, hell, we KNEW it would be polarizing when we wrote it…and sure, i realize it goes WAY over the heads of our core demographic, but i still think it was worth doing, just this once…relieved though to see there’s more “thumbs up” than “thumbs down” (so far, anyway)…
Gotta give the guy credit, through Batman beyond they’ve told a story where Batman steps down to a successor (twice now!). Something I never thought I’d buy.
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### Author:  [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/16 "2005-07-25T15:21:02Z")
> [@Menocchio](#):
>
> \And over on the Toonzone forums (no direct link handy, sorry)\
[Here](http://forums.toonzone.net/) you go.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [July 25, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/17 "2005-07-25T15:55:01Z")
Thanks for the Info, Mennochio - It wasn’t (and isn’t) clear to me that the Waller stuff was the same night as Terry returning to Bruce at the mansion - but however muddled the structure was, it’s nice to hear what the intent was.
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### Author:  [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/18 "2005-07-26T13:46:15Z")
The very last scene, where Batman Beyond is flying over Gotham and his shadow zips past the two guys in their flying machine (“Did you see that?”)…was that not a direct lift from the first scene in BTAS where Man-Bat flies past one of the ubiquitous Gotham derigibles? Or am I misremembering? I meant to check that out last night. Seems like a nice way to bookend the entire Timm/Dini saga.
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### Author:  [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/19 "2005-07-26T13:48:47Z")
> [@Max Carnage](#):
>
> The very last scene, where Batman Beyond is flying over Gotham and his shadow zips past the two guys in their flying machine (“Did you see that?”)…was that not a direct lift from the first scene in BTAS where Man-Bat flies past one of the ubiquitous Gotham derigibles? Or am I misremembering? I meant to check that out last night. Seems like a nice way to bookend the entire Timm/Dini saga.
It struck me as similar, but I’m not sure if it’s exact, with the ‘angle’ and everything.
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### Author:  [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jlu-7-24-05-season-finale/313947/20 "2005-07-26T17:06:43Z")
“We had to secure some of Batman’s DNA. That was easy; he left it all over town…That’s not even remotely what I meant.”
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