# jmullaney -- what's the deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2000, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187 "2000-12-05T22:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/21 "2000-12-06T00:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ren \* > This from a man who insists that every dictionary in print is wrong. Main Entry: 1sin Pronunciation: 'sin Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is – more at IS Date: before 12th century 1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible \ c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT 2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God Main Entry: crime Pronunciation: 'krIm Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin crimen accusation, reproach, crime; probably akin to Latin cernere to sift, determine Date: 14th century 1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law 2 : a grave offense especially against morality 3 : criminal activity \ 4 : something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful \ **I fail to see a vast difference here.** ---
**Author:** ![schimmel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@schimmel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/schimmel)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/22 "2000-12-06T00:13:14Z")
“He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof gaineth understanding.” “Correction is grievous to him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.” “A reproof entereth into a wise man more than a hundred stripes into a fool.” “Let a bear robbed of her whelps meet a man, rather than a fool in his folly.” “As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.” (all Proverbs, passim; I’ve been dying to drop the last one into a conversation for ages). jmullaney, you’ve got it WRONG. Try and grasp WHY, for goodness’ sake. Jodi has put the matter to you extremely clearly - I just don’t believe that you really can’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/23 "2000-12-06T00:15:58Z")
Er, Joel, you don’t see a difference between “public law” and “the law of God?” ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/24 "2000-12-06T00:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > What can I possibly do to offend my brother that wouldn’t offend God as well, unless my brother is a jerk? Note be an arrogant and obtuse asshole; start there. > [@](#): > > People were being thrown in prison for adultery less than a 100 years ago here in Boston. The pendulum could easily swing back the other way. Follow me closely here: yes, adultery was a crime 100 years ago. It isn’t a crime now. It may be someday a crime again. It isn’t a crime now. Is it a sin? Ask God, not man. Sin may be a constant (if you believe in absolute morality) but crime is not; society decides what actions are or are not criminal. > [@](#): > > Let me get what you are saying straight. I can forgive people of their sins if there sins are not crimes, but if they are crimes I can’t? What baloney. You have the cognitive reasoning ability of a box of hair. YOU CANNOT FORGIVE PEOPLE OF THEIR SINS! EVER! Crime, yes; sin, no. > [@](#): > > The Bible makes no distinction between these two concepts and neither shall I. Newsflash, genius: the Bible makes that distinction repeatedly, specifically in drawing a distinction between violations of Roman law (secular law – crime) and Jewish law (holy law – sin). That’s why Pilate asks “what crime has this man done, that you seek to have Him put to death?” And in Acts Paul similarly relates that he was arrested and turned over to the Romans, who wanted to release him because he had commited no crime. Moreover, the Bible may not specifically distinguish between “sin” and “crime” but neither does it anywhere say they are the same. Your common sense should tell you they are not. Y’know, if you had any. > [@](#): > > Well, we are simply going to have to disagree here. Yep, we sure are. Just like if you said up was the same as down and I pointed out that in the real world it’s not, you could then say “well, we’ll just have to disagree on that.” > [@](#): > > Jesus didn’t teach the forgiveness of sins. What exactly was he doing again? Maybe I missed it. I NEVER said Jesus did not teach the forgiveness of sin. Your bald-faced lying when people can merely scroll up to see what I DID in fact say only makes you look like that much more of an intellectually dishonest jerk. > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t be so legalistic. HA! :rolleyes: You shouldn’t be so obtuse. > [@](#): > > But you do not believe God alone is judge. Of _course_ I don’t believe God alone is judge of the breaking of the secular law, set up by men for men. The only one who believes such a patently ridiculous and scripturally insupportable thing is you. They had judges all the way back to the Old Testament too, remember? Even have a book named after them? And if you think you are not alone in this interpretation, then point me to ONE SOURCE that supports the premise that men should not just men and crimes should go unpunished. Just ONE. > [@](#): > > Aren’t sins just bad acts? I have already defined sin; I won’t do it again. You can lead a person to citation, but you can’t make him read. > [@](#): > > I have followed his teachings in the past. But since you have no right to understand his teachings either, who is to say which of us is right? The difference is that I do not INSIST I am right, and do so repeatedly. Nor do I INSIST on an iterpretation that defies common sense. You do both. You cheerfully cite scripture for the damnedest things, and interpret it in the damnedest way, and you do so in the apparent conviction that you are right. This offends me – not because your interpretation is different than mine but because it is stupid. > [@](#): > > I’m a Christian sypathizer. Then the good Lord preserve us all from your sympathy. And from the link provided by lucie: > [@](#): > > I lived almost like a God while others waited on my every beck and call and yet I could not convince these others that keeping the commandments was what was right (aside from a half dozen). Furthermore, many were quite angry with me by virtue of my holiness, and I feared that should I keep it up I would eventually get myself killed. If I could not turn many from sin the world was flawed. And I lacked faith that those who had turned could truly prosper. Considering I was not prepared to be happy, I decided to return to my sins. “Angry with you by virtue of your holiness”?? The _arrogance_! The breathtaking ARROGANCE! “If I could not turn many from sin the world was flawed”?? PLEASE! Consider for a moment that you cannot turn many from sin not because everyone else is flawed but because you come across as an ARROGANT OBTUSE JERK whom people would far prefer to SMACK rather than take moral lessons from. You are unbelievable. I don’t know anyone else, religious, agnostic, or atheist, who is so full of self-love and self-admiration as to even type such offensive tripe. I suggest you concentrate less on the mote in the eye of others and more on the log in your own. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/25 "2000-12-06T00:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucie \* > in which he is being a smug weenie who has thinks you have to be a Christian to have any morals or ethics. You were reading something into what I wrote that I did not mean. I have already apologized and clarified in that thread. > [@](#): > > That thread was started by jenkinsfan for the stated purpose of finding out about why some of us are non-deists **Lie.** He asked for the opinions of deists as well: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jenkinsfan \* > … I am sincerely interested in learning about former followers of religion who are now deists/agnostics/atheists/skeptics. > [@](#): > > jmullaney apparently can’t resist any opportunity to let us all know that he’s the guy with the direct line to god, the keeper of all human morality, and all us endemonized heathens can’t tell right from wrong. In that thread I said no such thing. **pepperlandgirl** – do you believe that God should be our only judge? **schimmel** – anyone who says to their brother ‘you fool’ is headed for hellfire. But I forgive you. Go in peace. When I am a juror, I am representing society for better or worse. I will not judge another, or act as an accomplice in their condemnation. You all may not believe in loving your enemies and I hardly do myself. But we’re all trying to do our best. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/26 "2000-12-06T00:34:21Z")
> [@](#): > > anyone who says to their brother ‘you fool’ is headed for hellfire. But I forgive you. Go in peace. Well. I see SOMEone has been [reading](http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1200/ntdamnation.html) at Landover. Sheesh. Besides, if I call you a fool, the best you can do is forgive me in your heart for my insult against you, Joel. Thanks and all that, but if I do not ask and receive God’s forgiveness, I’m still gonna burn, regardless of your forgiveness. Fool. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/27 "2000-12-06T00:35:48Z")
> [@](#): > > pepperlandgirl – do you believe that God should be our only judge? Judge of what? Crimes, sins, fashion? Seriously, if I am caught speeding, I don’t think God cares. However, the local authorities sure do. jmullaney, do you even understand why society has created laws? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/28 "2000-12-06T00:37:41Z")
Ummm, ya haven’t answered **pepper’s** direct question about speeding, Joel. I think it’s on point. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/29 "2000-12-06T00:38:49Z")
Sorry, simulpost. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/30 "2000-12-06T00:41:48Z")
> [@](#): > > schimmel – anyone who says to their brother ‘you fool’ is headed for hellfire. But I forgive you. Go in peace. Argh! Everything you _type_ aggravates and offends me! Fuck fuck fuck! I’m gonna go have a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/31 "2000-12-06T00:51:05Z")
Ahem. Let me try to interpret this, given what has been said in other threads on economics. > [@](#): > > I expected to suffer – I felt I deserved to suffer for all the mistakes I had made in my life besides. But much to my chagrin I found not suffering but joy. But there seemed to be a flaw in the world. I lived almost like a God while others waited on my every beck and call and yet I could not convince these others that keeping the commandments was what was right (aside from a half dozen). Furthermore, many were quite angry with me by virtue of my holiness, and I feared that should I keep it up I would eventually get myself killed. If I could not turn many from sin the world was flawed. And I lacked faith that those who had turned could truly prosper. Considering I was not prepared to be happy, I decided to return to my sins. Um, this means he stopped working and tried to tell people it was wrong to use money. And that he was living as Jesus commanded his disciples…y’know, that whole take no heed for earthly possesions, carry nothing with you, God will provide for you thing. So, after a couple years of sponging off people, they started to get annoyed at his “holiness”. And while I have no proof, I imagine he didn’t bathe as often as he might have in those days. And then he was always telling the people whose work was supporting him that they were wrong to work and make money and buy food and clothing, instead they should depend on God. And all the while living in their homes, eating their food, and watching their cable TV. > [@](#): > > Like John predicted in Revelations, for 42 months I happily served the beast. But for the past 6 or so months there has been a burning within me that I should return to a life of faith. But I am weak, and have not yet brought myself to do so. I am trying to learn about others so were I to embark on another mission I might be more sucessful. Which means that he wants to quit working again and sponge off other people again, yet he’s afraid that they’d get sick of it again and he’d be out on his ass again. And then he’d have no home, no food, and no friends, because he was too “holy” for this world, he was only doing what Jesus commanded, and if those people didn’t listen there was nothing he could do. Now for the meanness to be over, and the questioning to begin. J…I really think you have some problems. I have the impression that you are somewhat Catholic. Have you tried to talk about your spiritual confusion with a priest? I mean, that is their job…to help people understand how to live their lives in this world. I really think you could use some religous counseling. Do you personally know ANY religious person who you respect who could help you? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/32 "2000-12-06T01:19:00Z")
Sorry if this is currently off topic, but I’m responding to the authority of human agencies in matters of crime. The bible, in 1 Peter 2:13-17, clearly establishes the authority of mankind to punish crime. Here are the verses: > [@](#): > > (13)Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme, (14) or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. (15) For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: (16) as free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. (17) Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. Translation: KJV It would appear that earthly kingdoms do, in fact, have the divinely ordained right of punishment, according to the bible. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/33 "2000-12-06T01:40:44Z")
Nice shot, **Ogre** , but Joel does not accept epistles except when it suits him. His response will undoubtedly be something like “Who are you going to believe, Christ or Peter?” ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/34 "2000-12-06T01:41:41Z")
> [@](#): > > schimmel – anyone who says to their brother ‘you fool’ is headed for hellfire. But I forgive you. Go in peace. Not so. Matthew 5:22 says, “But anyone who says “You Fool!” will be in **danger** of the fire of hell.” Bolding mine. Translation: NIV. Danger is a different concept from certainty. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/35 "2000-12-06T01:44:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > The Bible makes no distinction between these two concepts… Beg to differ, but yes, actually it does. In the verse you quoted yourself, which is Revelation 18:5, “…for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes”, there’s the distinction right there between “sins” and “crimes”. In plain English. In the NIV. Her sins _AND_ her crimes. Not just the “sins”. Not just the “crimes”. Both. Or do you think God meant to be intentionally redundant, perhaps for artistic effect? In the NIV, the word “sin” appears a whopping 473 times in 420 verses, starting with Genesis 4:7, _“If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it”,_ and ending with Revelations 2:14, \*“Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.” \* The word “crime” occurs only 19 times in 18 verses. Obviously it is not as important to God as “sin”. From Genesis 31:36, _“Jacob was angry and took Laban to task. ‘What is my crime?’ he asked Laban”,_ to Acts 28:18, _“They examined me and wanted to release me, because I was not guilty of any crime deserving death”,_ it has to do with offenses against man’s law. In the Bible, “sin” requires forgiveness from God. “Crime” requires punishment from man, i.e. the civil authorities. “Sin” is disobedience to God; “crime” is disobedience to man’s law. The difference between a “sin” and a “crime” according to Merriam-Webster: > **[Dictionary by Merriam-Webster: America's most-trusted online dictionary](https://www.merriam-webster.com/)** > > The dictionary by Merriam-Webster is America's most trusted online dictionary for English word definitions, meanings, and pronunciation. #wordsmatter > [@](#): > > Main Entry: 1sin > Pronunciation: 'sin > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is – more at IS > Date: before 12th century > 1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible \ c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT > 2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God > synonym see OFFENSE > [@](#): > > Main Entry: crime > Pronunciation: 'krIm > Function: noun > Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin crimen accusation, reproach, crime; probably akin to Latin cernere to sift, determine > Date: 14th century > 1 : an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law > 2 : a grave offense especially against morality > 3 : criminal activity \ > 4 : something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful \ > synonym see OFFENSE > > - crime·less /-l&s/ adjective Again, the same distinction is made. “Sin” is an offense against God; “crime” is an offense against human law. P.S. I want to address this, pertaining to Jenkinsfan’s linked GQ thread: Somebody says: > [@](#): > > jmullaney apparently can’t resist any opportunity to let us all know that he’s the guy with the direct line to god, the keeper of all human morality, and all us endemonized heathens can’t tell right from wrong. And **Jmullaney** says, “In that thread I said no such thing.” No, I suppose you didn’t, exactly. But you DID jump in and start witnessing in a thread that was obviously meant to be a “Why are you an atheist?” thread. What on earth were you trying to do? The place for witnessing is in Great Debates; you ought to know that by now. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/36 "2000-12-06T01:44:39Z")
My answer, **andros** , will be, “if you believe some of it, you have to believe all of it.” If you are a true believer, you know that you have no way to decide on your own what is valid and what is not about the Bible. You have to have faith that the entire thing is internally consistent, or the whole thing collapses. Which is why I’m an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Jester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jester/32/8223_2.png) [@Jester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jester)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/37 "2000-12-06T01:44:53Z")
Now, jmullaney, let me just say beforehand, that I am NOT here to argue the difference between sin and crime. I don’t wanna get tangled up in that. BUT, you said to Jodi: “But you do not believe God alone is judge.” THIS, jmullaney, is where you are wrong. In the Bible, the whole “judge not lest you too be judged” passage is about **Heaven** and **Hell**. Period. Basically, it means that no one on earth can say whether someone else is going to (repeat after me): **Heaven** or **Hell**. Can we agree on that? Thank you. NOW. In a court of law, it is not the job of the judge/jury/lawyer to decide whether a person goes to (chorus) **Heaven** or **Hell**. Nay, it is the job of the court to decide whether that person goes to **jail** or walks **free**. Now, going to **jail** and **walking** free are different from **Heaven** or **Hell** , because one only effects a person while on Earth, and one effects their soul in the hereafter. Putting people in **jail** is NOT the same as condemming someone to **Hell** , because putting them in **jail** is an Earthly measure, performed to keep a person from hurting anybody else. The courts are still leaving the final judgement of **Heaven** or **Hell** up to the big man himself, and are therefore following the scriptures. Period. (Bolding done for emphasis, to try to work it into your tiny, deluded, self-righteous mind. Hope I was of service.) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/38 "2000-12-06T01:53:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > **I fail to see a vast difference here.** \*\* Jeepers creepers. Here I go and get that huge post together and I left out the best part. Teach me to post while somebody’s watching Johnny Carson’s farewell show in the next room… Mullaney, is English a second language for you? Seriously, if it is, let us know and we can work with you on it. Here I go and post the same dictionary definitions for you that you posted for us, so here it is twice in the thread, and we can all look at it, “yep, that’s what it says, all right”, and you can still stand there and say you don’t see a difference between a “sin” and a “crime”? Golly Moses. I give up. Jodi, wanna come watch Johnny Carson with me? You wouldn’t BELIEVE how young some of these people look. (Richard Pryor, geez) ---
**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/39 "2000-12-06T01:56:13Z")
[hijack]I have a sneeking suspicion Jodis gonna need more that one drink [end/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187/40 "2000-12-06T02:01:38Z")
And BTW, **Jodi,** I happen to believe that “up” **IS** “down”, so I guess you and I will just have to disagree on that. 😃 If you don’t want to watch Johnny Carson, we could watch _The Terminator_ again. [Schwarzenegger voice, _i’ll be back…_ tee hee hee] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jmullaney-whats-the-deal/44187.md?page=3)