# Joaquin Phoenix and Gladiator (no spoilers in OP) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 5, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468 "2000-06-05T18:03:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beefymeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@beefymeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beefymeg)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/1 "2000-06-05T18:03:18Z")
As I was watching _Gladiator_, I noticed Joaquin Phoenix’s cleft lip. My better half pointed it out and said it was sort of “foreshadowing” (and/or proof) of the in-breeding that happened among the royals of ancient Rome. I now know that Joaquin Phoenix was born with a cleft lip. But it seemed that it worked really well with the plot. I guess I’m just wondering if anybody else thinks it’s cool or worthy of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/2 "2000-06-05T19:23:34Z")
Villians are often portrayed with physical ‘flaws’. For example, Shakespeare made Richard III a hunchback, though there’s no evidence he was. It makes them seem more dastardly. What this says about our views on deformity may not be exactly inspiring, but as a writer I guess you have to go with what works. Incidentally, Commudus is Latin for ‘toilet’, and Maximus is Latin for ‘me very good strong.’ ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/3 "2000-06-05T19:59:26Z")
I wasn’t aware that cleft lips were the result of “inbreeding”. Otherwise, there’s not much to discuss about it … Dude has famous brother, famous brother croaks from drugs, dude inherits brother’s name recognition, name recognition + dead famous brother = movie roles (aka the “Jim Belushi” factor), and it’s off to fame and fortune. I would have thought that by now Mr. Phoenix would have shelled out for some cosmetic surgery that somewhat camouflages that cleft-lip scar (like Cheech did), but whatever. It’s his money. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/4 "2000-06-05T20:11:17Z")
Actually Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus was quite crazy and juvilie in real life. There is no direct evidence that he had a cleft lip, but his inbreeding was surely a partial cause on his inability to rule and his delusions that he was a great leader. he did spend a lot of his time in the colluseum and was fond of gladiatorials contests. he even felt himself “The Roman Hecrules” and kept a duplicate of the club and lion’s skin cape near his throne at all times. He actually died on new years eve 192 the day he was to be appointed the Consul. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/5 "2000-06-05T20:13:53Z")
Actually Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus was quite crazy and juvilie in real life. There is no direct evidence that he had a cleft lip, but his inbreeding was surely a partial cause on his inability to rule and his delusions that he was a great leader. he did spend a lot of his time in the colluseum and was fond of gladiatorials contests. he even felt himself “The Roman Hecrules” and kept a duplicate of the club and lion’s skin cape near his throne at all times. He actually died on new years eve 192 the day he was to be appointed the Consul. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/6 "2000-06-05T20:17:53Z")
Actually Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus was quite crazy and juvilie in real life. There is no direct evidence that he had a cleft lip, but his inbreeding was surely a partial cause on his inability to rule and his delusions that he was a great leader. he did spend a lot of his time in the colluseum and was fond of gladiatorials contests. he even felt himself “The Roman Hecrules” and kept a duplicate of the club and lion’s skin cape near his throne at all times. He actually died on new years eve 192 the day he was to be appointed the Consul. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/7 "2000-06-05T20:21:03Z")
Actually Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus was quite crazy and juvilie in real life. There is no direct evidence that he had a cleft lip, but his inbreeding was surely a partial cause on his inability to rule and his delusions that he was a great leader. he did spend a lot of his time in the colluseum and was fond of gladiatorials contests. he even felt himself “The Roman Hecrules” and kept a duplicate of the club and lion’s skin cape near his throne at all times. He actually died on new years eve 192 the day he was to be appointed the Consul. ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2000, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/8 "2000-06-05T20:22:20Z")
Terribly sorry about all that ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2000, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/9 "2000-06-06T01:35:51Z")
Leaf Phoenix was actually an actor long before River started in on the job. Then he changed his name back to the original Joaquin (pronounced Wah-Keen for some fucked up reason) and carried on acting in some Indie pics. He’s a marvel at accents, no doubt about it, and he played the role of Commodus really effectively. The hare-lip is just a happy coinkydink. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/10 "2000-06-06T02:01:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Then he changed his name back to the original Joaquin (pronounced Wah-Keen for some fucked up reason) Not a fucked up reason; that’s how you pronounce that particular name, which is spanish in origin. The “j” is a strongly aspirated /h/ and the “qu” is a /k/. A better phonetic spelling would be something like /hhwa’kin/. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/joaquin-phoenix-and-gladiator-no-spoilers-in-op/21468/11 "2000-06-06T02:47:37Z")
I like to pronounce it the way it is spelled… which is admittedly hard to pronounce anyway. Thanks for the facts, though.