# Job Applicants - Try not to be an idiot on your first impression **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257 "2009-02-24T19:51:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/181 "2009-02-28T14:43:25Z")
Back in the day- I was tagged to help hire some additional help at the group home I worked for. We received one resume, which… I am entirely sure he meant to say “Shift Supervisor”. However, he left out the vital letter F on his resume. Proudly notifying us of his time when he worked as a Shit Supervisor. We had to take time to ponder if he was saying he was not a very good supervisor, or whether he was in charge of poo. And- I know nobody asked me- but you’ll get it anyway re: the Online Applications. I received my job through an online application. The online application does not HAVE to be completely pointless. Mine was a big pain in rear- including questions which required actual thoughtful answers and not just an entering of your basic data. I think that an online application can be useful for the employer. Their employees are not spending all day answering phone calls and can work on their regular duties. Much less expense to the company. But the employer does, it seems, owe _something_ to the applicant. The problem from the applicant side is that the online form is so… cold. It’s impersonal. I fill this thing out in my underwear- and then sit and wait by the phone. It doesn’t really _feel_ like I’m looking for a job. Plus with nobody calling you back (I am sure this is in large part to the great number of applications these companies get) you’re never quite sure if things went correctly or not. There’s no confirmation that you ever actually did apply for a job. To me- the perfect process would include some sort of statement back from the company when the application is received by the company- so you at least _know_ they received it; then a follow up when the job has been filled. It doesn’t seem like it would be too hard to fill out some sort of automated database that would send a form letter… "Thank you for your interest. The position you applied for has been filled. Thank you for your interest. We apologize that we were not able to personally respond to every applicant- due to the great number of applications received… " blah blah blah That way you are not constantly sitting around hoping things are going ok with the 10 applications you filled out in the last few weeks. If they don’t do this- how can the company not expect that people will want to contact them with a more personal approach. It’s the only way you can be sure that the company is aware that you even exist. Of course- the calls need to be professional and carefully meted out by the applicant. Give the company some time to respond. Call after a few days- make sure they received the application- see if they needed any additional information. If you are careful to stay professional you can appear interested and make a positive impression without being annoying- and hopefully when your name pops up- you will be remembered above the 100’s of anonymous names. (Unless, of course, the hiring people are major league asses) As melodyharmonious noted- if done with appropriate tact and professionalism- it works fine. Of course, at the present moment it seems people are starting to freak out a little bit and losing what little tact and professionalism they had. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/182 "2009-02-28T18:31:34Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > True story, a few years ago I was on unemployment, but picking up whatever work I could find to get by until I found something more permanent. A lot of freelancing, but not enough to pay the bills. I got some freelance work with a company, which paid well but wasn’t going to be consistent. So I had one week where I worked enough that they closed my unemployment claim, and I had to reopen the next week because they didn’t have any work for me then. > > Now, these people liked me, and liked my work. It was also a direct freelance, no agency playing middleman. So, for legal purposes, I was self-employed, this company was my client. They’d be filing a 1099, not a W-2. I was not, in any way, their employee. > > So when I tried to reopen, the Unemployment guy asked me who my employer was last week when my claim was closed. I told them, repeatedly, that it was me. I had been freelancing. I was self-employed. I was working at this company but _they were not my employer._ They were my _client._ > > We go around like this for five minutes, with me insisting that it’s ME who was the employer here, and he insisting that he couldn’t put that down. (What, no one freelances in unemployment land?) Finally he says “I just need something to put on the form.” Silly me, thinking he meant what he said, finally gave up the name of my client, _again_ reminding him that they are my client and not my employer. > > And you know what happened? The unemployment office calls this company up, and starts asking questions, and wants them to pay out that payroll/unemployment fee on my paycheck. And I never worked for them again. I even tried leaving them an apology on their voicemail, telling them that I’d told the unemployment people that they weren’t my employers, but it did no good. They never even spoke to me again. > > Goddamn fuckers. I can’t even begin to tell you how many thousands of dollars that cost me. That was going to be an ongoing, open-ended gig, and I probably would have had work with them for as long as I wanted. Certainly long enough to find a full-time job. And when I called the Unemployment office and told them that they’d just guaranteed I’d be back on the dole for several more months instead of working, they _didn’t care._ Where was this? I’ve been picking up freelance work while on unemployment (and, I might add, truthfully reporting my earnings) and my unemployment office hasn’t had a problem coping with the concept of “independent contractor”. Yes, I did have to give the name/address of my client, but I’ve been doing this for over a year and there have been no problems (so far). ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/183 "2009-03-01T04:08:30Z")
I got my current – most definitely not entry level – job by responding to a Craigslit posting from a major financial institution. That response was in the form of an online application and I had no connection at that location. This thread has confirmed that this makes me a god among mere mortals. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/184 "2009-03-01T07:51:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Where was this? I’ve been picking up freelance work while on unemployment (and, I might add, truthfully reporting my earnings) and my unemployment office hasn’t had a problem coping with the concept of “independent contractor”. Yes, I did have to give the name/address of my client, but I’ve been doing this for over a year and there have been no problems (so far). Chicago, during the last recession (not this one). Maybe 2003? Believe me, if it ever comes up again, they will not, under any circumstances, get the name of my client. If they “just need something to put on the form,” they can have the name of my freelance business. If that makes their heads explode, too damn bad. Yanno, if they don’t want people to cheat on unemployment, actively creating extra disincentives to honestly report income seems like an extraordinarily dumb move. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/185 "2009-03-01T16:50:00Z")
> [@orderfire](#): > > As a lowly University departmental Admin, I get to review & log all the applications. > Although the logging of vast volumes of paperwork is tedious, it can be entertaining (especially for a high school dropout like yours truly). > > Recently, during a search for a tenure-track Assistant Professor, I encountered one that was poorly laid out, full of grammatical errors & misspellings…lo and behold, he’s a Ph.D.! From This Very Flagship University! WOO HOO way to educate!!! > Oh believe me, verifying that claim was the first thing I did. Sadly, it was true. > Regardless, he instantly disqualified himself by 1) not including the requested letter of introduction to the search committee chair and 2) when I politely reminded him via email to submit said letter, he replied thusly (and I quote): > > Dear Ms. Orderfire: > > It is felt that I qualify for this position since I have over 18 years of actual classroom teaching experience, 5 years of educational administration experience and have over 12 years of interacting with students who have disabilities. > Along with my educational preparation, I feel that I am more than qualified for a fair shot at this position in terms of at less being granted an interview to discuss my qualifications in greater detail. > > Attached please find my letters of reference. > > Regards > > (“Regards” no less! Do you believe this guy??) > > Well, shut my mouth! Why didn’t you say so! In that case, you’re hired! Never mind that posted minimum qualification about good interpersonal and communication skills. Or the other one about proven ability to work effectively with diverse populations. > > I shared this bundle of joy with my brother who remarked: > “You know, that PhD probably had a problem with an unsupportive admin just like you. She wouldn’t proofread, neglected to include those supporting docs and stood aside when he wrote retarded, defensive notes to higher-ups! God it’s so hard to get good help these days. Out of my way, underling! > It is felt that that I know what I am talking about. It Is Felt that this is one of many functionally illiterate douchewads who has spend way too much time in academia.” :eek: You are [del]shitting[/del] kidding me! And here I am telling to myself: “you are not ready, English is your second language, you still need to work on your accent”. And with less than three years of teaching experience I thought that looking for a better school to teach was not yet in the cards, maybe after getting more certificates. However. Your story makes me wonder if in reality there is a valid reason on why I should wait, I should apply elsewhere now and get the required certificates later\* when I see examples like the “talent” that is daring to apply nowadays. Are you hiring? 🙂 - Some positions I have seen allow for this. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/186 "2009-03-01T19:30:36Z")
Great stories. The application process online is inhumane, but there’s no going back. I was just recently hired for a second job (I’m transitioning between fields) and I had to apply online. I ended up getting that job (for which I am extremely grateful–more on that anon), but I also applied for a completely different job online with not so great results. Let me [del]bore[/del] tell you about it. I am an RN, with my BSN, and recently obtained my MLS (master’s of library and information science). I was sitting in my same day surgery nurses’ station last August when I got a visit from God. No, not that God–I got a visit from about 6 suits, one of whom was God, that is, the Chief Nursing Officer of the entire chain of hospitals in which I work. They were on a talent hunt, apparently. We chatted for a bit and it came out that I had my master’s and was hoping to use it. “God” took my name and position down and told me to contact Deb X, at a sister hospital, who needed someone like me to do Clinical Nurse Educator stuff and help with Nursing Informatics. She gives me Deb’s number and title. She says she’ll contact Deb but that I need to follow up. Ok, I said. Thanks! And here I enter into the hell that is our online website. I apply. I also call this Deb and speak to her for about 20 minutes on the phone, all about the program she is building at this sister hospital, doing some basic nursing research etc. I’m fired up and thinking that this may be a way to meld my nursing and my librarian skills and yet keep my seniority etc. We exchange several emails at this time. She is aware that my master’s is not in education, but is fine with that fact, given that the two fields do have some overlap. She says she’s at my site on Tuesdays and will follow up and for me to send her my resume. I do so and hear nothing. I call my HR (interdepartmental/site transfers are handled this way) and she denies ever having received my online app. OK. I go to apply again. No position posted. Huh? I email Deb and update her. She replies that she will follow up with HR. I wait a week and try again. Position is now posted, I apply, and print out the screen that says app has been received. About 2 weeks has gone by now, but as soon as I get confirmation that my app went through, I email Deb a line or two. I get this in reply: From: Deb \ Date: A while ago To: eleanorigby Subject: Re: Resume and Job Application **Donna** , Thank you for your resume. I don’t believe you applied on-line which is part of the process. At this time I need someone with more experience in nursing education Thank you for sending me your resume. So, I went online again, found this temporary librarian position at another hospital and applied as a lark. They called me, I interviewed and got the job the same day. Now they want me to replace the librarian when she retires in the fall. It’s a lovely place and I have yet to have anyone be rude or dismissive toward me, UNLIKE my current place of employment. So, IME, it really doesn’t matter, online or over the phone or in person. It all comes down to the people. I would no more work for Deb now than I would go on the pole to make money for my family. Sometimes employers get what they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/187 "2009-03-01T21:18:55Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I would no more work for Deb now than I would go on the pole to make money for my family. New selling point for a career in stripping: no online application process! ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/188 "2009-03-01T21:57:04Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > … and we don’t care to work very hard in finding them." Since this hiring is taking place at a university, I’m darn sure this part quoted here isn’t true. Universities go to almost ridiculous lengths to make hiring hard work, particularly hires of tenure-track faculty. Weeks of person-hours will go into this hire, I can just about guarantee. Typical would be bringing three or more candidates in for 2-day interview processes that involve multiple group interviews. That doesn’t count time reviewing applications, negotiating offers, in faculty meetings arguing over who to interview and who to hire… And since they have 60 applicants for 1 position, would you rather they spent more time hand-holding this semi-literate tool, or actually teaching some students? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/189 "2009-03-01T22:22:43Z")
**Harriet** , I think (hope?) that **Sublight** was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![orderfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orderfire/32/10908_2.png) [@orderfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orderfire)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257/190 "2009-03-02T17:31:39Z")
**GIGObuster** : _Are you hiring? 🙂_ Sorry, no…state hiring freeze since about oh I don’t know…October? Probably never to open again, the way things are going. But - don’t let that discourage you, you’re absolutely on the right track. Several professors here are ESL, so keep trying. Anyone can learn the ins and outs of a position, but politeness, diplomacy & personality do open doors that might otherwise remain closed. Good luck! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/job-applicants-try-not-to-be-an-idiot-on-your-first-impression/487257.md?page=9)